Beyond Sunday: Formed by the Cross of Christ

Catch up: this week’s Sunday morning message.

Walking with Jesus offers life and goodness but it also cost us. It will cost us OUR LIFE, the way we want it and in return God offers life eternal, life abundant. Carefully count the cost if you are to walk with Jesus.

Catch up: this week’s Sunday morning message.

• Transcript

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  [Music] Hey guys, welcome to Beyond Sunday where we desire to take the conversation deeper. And so this uh on this episode I'm joined by Sherea. Um and uh I know it's virtual. We're not sitting in the same room recording this podcast, but um Sheree, how you doing this morning? I'm pretty good. I woke up tired, but it that I'm slowly waking up and and gearing up for the day. Yeah. What a what a great place to wake up on this podcast in a conversation with me. Yes. Nothing. Yeah. You can't even say that with a

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  straight face. But that's okay. We'll we'll move into the conversation. But before we do, take a look at this video. Heat [Music] [Music] Okay guys, as we jump into the conversation in this episode, we're into a new series, uh, Walking with Jesus, a journey of formation. And so to kick off this one, uh, Pastor Sherea and myself got to team preach at C3. Uh, and it was a fun time. We even had a little illustration. Um, which, uh, uh, Shrea, you are the the queen of, uh, illustrations.

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  Okay. I wouldn't say that. Um, but I do love a good illustration. Right. I won't claim like that. I'm like fantastic. won't claim nobility uh uh in in that field in that area. But I do love them. I think it's great. It Do you know why? Cuz well I imagine I was going to I was going to offer why but then you just you want to tell us. No, go ahead. What do you think? Because you say do you want to know why and then I start asking answering but you I think it's because the children

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  pastor in you comes out and you're like yes. You can even see the light bulb go on in people's uh in their eyes and their face. You're like they're getting it. Yeah. So that's part of it. It's it's twofold. It's the children's pastor and it's the fact that adults really aren't that different than kids. So you can do an illustration for kids like everybody knows that that that's what you probably would use for kids, but it's true for adults, too. Some adults especially are

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  very visual at you, my friend. Um, but the other reason is Thank you for making that over overly obvious there. Well, that's because the other reason that I like illustrations is because I'm here for clear communication. And so any other way that we can help clearly communicate, whether it's tone or facial expression or illustration. Um, I'm here for that. Yeah. And I love clear communication through scripture because I think God's word is clear instruction. So, I think uh that makes what makes team preaching

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  so fun is that uh we've we've all of it. Okay. For the record, I'm also here for scripture. What I never said you I never said you weren't. Uh but it's funny that you had to clarify that was a tone. We should just tell the people what this sentence was about. So this one, okay, this one is um uh in this walking with Jesus a journey of formation. We start with Luke 14 uh in the Jesus describing to the people to the disciples, here's what it's going to cost to follow me. And he sort of lays

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  it out for them. And um so I think in this conversation and even it was a part of our our pray our prayer sha is that um uh as we have this conversation let's imagine that that god is pulling up a chair and uh he's going to he's going to enter into this conversation with us because as we were prepping for this uh and reading uh Luke 14 and it's like gosh um this isn't the this is a hard it can be a hard word in the like have you considered the what it will cost you to follow

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  Jesus? And this is something we said even on on Sunday that uh we've we've said in in our uh ministry and in our life and our relationship that it's going to cost you everything to follow Jesus. Mhm. And it's worth it. But it will cost you. and mean the things that we maybe hold dear and have a grasp on that um I' I'd like to control that. I'd like to think I could control that. I' I I u I'd like to be able to make the decisions in those areas and I'm still got a grasp on it

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  and I haven't offered it to God. It's those those are the hard ones. This like have I counted the cost that even that even that will cost uh for me in in following Jesus? Yeah. Yeah. And that's um that's kind of where we we moved into with even with the illustration helping us to unpack that a little bit because we that that main piece of that scripture, right, where Jesus is talking in this like you deny yourself, lay lay lay down yourself, take up my cross and follow me. And so we're what we were

  00:05:51 - 00:06:52

  trying to do was like what's that actually mean? because uh that scripture we talk about a lot in in church and and um as followers of Jesus like okay well you have to deny yourself take up his cross and follow him and it's like um if I pause what is that what's the practical piece of that and so yeah uh what you're what you're saying there like the counting the cost of like I actually have to pay attention to what it is I'm supposed to deny in myself what it what it is I'm supposed to lay

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  down um and as we were uh preparing for this. That was one of the cool parts for me that kind of um uh I don't know, it felt like a realization of uh there's differences in some of the things we hold that God's asking us to lay down. Um and it felt maybe important to make that distinction between there's certain things that I'm going to hold on to um that I that really I've just prioritized in a uh I I've put them in a place that they don't belong. And those are typically things

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  that um they seem like good things that I've maybe I've given them uh more than they deserve, but they're they're the good like my family and my you know my work like uh work ethic or um those kinds of things that that can sometimes sit in a place where Jesus I mean he even calls out like you're going to have to hate you're going to hate you're going to have to hate your your mom and your dad and your brother and your sister and even yourself and and so that word of like you just said that's a

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  hard that's a hard word to read. Um and so in in some ways it's that. But the other piece of that um as we were talking through this and and preparing for this was the recognition that some of the things that I'm holding um they actually don't feel good to me. I would say like I don't want to hold on to that and yet we do. And that's some of the things like uh that burden us um whether we recognize it or not. Like if there's a space where I'm holding on to shame.

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  Um like carrying it around like here, yep, I know I've been redeemed and I've been forgiven, but here's all the shame for for what I was or what I used to be. Um like I don't actually want to hold that. That doesn't feel good. And yet sometimes I am holding on to that or um the the one that and I I think I said this on Sunday maybe, but the one that really um the the brokenness because I think like it's so easy to look at the world around us and just be like, man, it's it's overwhelming and our hearts

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  break like every time we turn around there's a story that that could bring us to our knees, right? And um I think that's good. I think we're we we've spent a significant amount of time in the last couple years even talking about lament and what it looks like to agree with God um that the world is broken. And so that's not bad, but sometimes uh at least in myself, there's this like uh this burden to hold on to like the world is so broken, we have to fix it. And and I think God's like, you can lament that,

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  but actually I'm the one that's going to fix this and put this back together. And so for me, even as we were trying to unpack the first piece of that Luke 14 uh passage of like denying yourself, laying laying this these things down, the recognition of like all those things, um I am going to have to count the cost. What are the things I'm holding? The things I've picked up that uh Jesus is asking you to lay down and do I recognize that those things have actually in in a lot of ways, those have

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  become a part of me and they've shaped me or formed me. Um and that that in that there's this pulling away of like I actually have to like tear that away from myself and put that down. Yeah. Because we we can um get used to what that feels like and think like that's now normal or I I've now been able to um uh figure out what it is to to live with it. And even though maybe I ideally I wouldn't want it in my life, I've now just I'm I'm I've figured out how to cope with it still there versus

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  putting on um the identity of Christ and being fully formed by him and that those things um while they may still exist in my life, the brokenness, the hurt, uh the pain, uh that they are they do not make up my identity. There are things that may exist in this in this life for a season and and maybe forever, but my identity in Christ is what has fully shaped me and I'm no longer um covered by those things. They they still may swirl around and be a part and as I n we navigate life and the storms of life and

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  the joys of life that those things aren't the things that stick to me because I've been fully formed by Christ. Yeah. Yeah. But that but that hard word though Shay of the hate hate the the mother and the father, the brother, the sister and even your own life that um you know for me even thinking about that like to try to fully grasp God what are you what is this what is this word for me here of um it just stands in contrast to like you know come follow me I'll make you a fisher of men um you invitation to the

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  disciples in the beginning of the call. Um uh and this is later on in the ministry with the disciples. It's like there actually is going to be a cost and mit for all the disciples except for John. It will cost them their life. [Music] Yeah. Yeah. Um well and I I think one of the things that hit me while we were while we were preaching um which is always fun like oh I didn't catch that before but we've been talking about Luke 14 being such a hard word and you just called it out. I mean that is there's no question

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  like those first few what's that's like 26 I guess it's mainly 26 that just hits you like right out of the gate of like anyone who comes to me does not hate and then there's this list of like things and hate such it feels like such a strong word and so that is a that is such a hard uh scripture and so that's what we had been talking about even I mean like even you were like you take Luke 14 that one's hard I don't want that one right um but as we were preaching um and and kind of talking

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  through because we what we had done the way we had set this up was like Luke 14 is the hard word and then there's this promise in Deuteronomy and elsewhere through scripture but Deuteronomy was the one uh the place that we were in. It's like this this hard word of like you're going to have to hate all of these things including yourself and put all this down if you're going to be my disciple and follow me. And then there's this beautiful promise in Deuteronomy um where there is still some of the heart

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  like you're going to have to choose death or life, but there's this beautiful promise of like will you choose life? Like this is what I have for you. And uh what we called out in that was like this is actually the promise of the presence of God. And we see that all throughout scripture, right? And so we had been holding those two things kind of in contrast. But as we were preaching, what I felt like I was realizing is like actually there is a promise in Luke 14. Um that I don't uh maybe I it hadn't hit for me before. Um

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  and and then even since then just continuing to think through this there's this promise of first of all that the the promise of the presence is in Luke 14. And it's this promise of like you can actually follow me and be my disciple. um the the idea of disciplehip like especially how uh where Jesus is talking about this this is not like you can show up to my class on Sunday and at you know 9 from 9:30 to 10 I'll teach you about scripture or whatever um Jesus is like you can actually do life with me like

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  you can be with me and so it's a presence that's that's the promise tucked into Luke 14 um but there's also this like um the the other piece of that if I will if I'll step back enough to recognize that actually being formed and shaped like Jesus, that's what I was designed for. Like that's the way and and you and I um we use the word tove a lot. Um which is the Hebrew word. We haven't done a Hebrew word in a long time, but and I we've probably done tove on the podcast before, but um you

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  know, it's still probably still getting a chime though. Just Okay. Okay. I'm gonna start adding lots because that's more editing work for you. So, just to see if you're up to it. So, next week I'm gonna come with like seven. Thank you. Has like more it's more of God's goodness just in the form of friendship with you. Yeah. Which is a perfect example of tove. So, here we go. Tove is the Hebrew word for good, but it's good not just like, hey, that's a good thing. It's

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  good because something is functioning in the way it was designed, like the way that it was purposed to function or to exist, right? So, uh, in the creation story, God makes, uh, all of the different things and each time it's functioning the way it's supposed to function and he says it's good. And then when he makes humanity, um, and he makes a helper for Adam and and then it's like this is very good and the way that my world and my creation is functioning as it was designed to function is so very

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  good. Um, and so in that that recognition like that's that's the desire, right? God uh God wants us. God wants good for us. And that's what we want if we're honest. Like I want the blessing. I want the favor of God. I want the goodness of God. Well, that comes from functioning in the way that I was designed and created to function, which is in the image of who God is. And so, if I'm formed and shaped like Jesus, that's how I move back towards God's perfect design, like what he had for me.

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  And so, that promise is actually tucked in Luke 14. So, there is this hard word, but it's almost like what Jesus is saying is like, I know this sounds really hard, but this is the best thing for you. Like, you don't you you may not realize this, but you're going to have to hate these other things that might be shaping you or forming you into something that you weren't designed to look like. Um, if you're going to want to be shaped and formed the way you were designed, because that's where the

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  goodness, that's where the promise, the presence, the blessing lies. Yeah. Um, well, I also don't I don't think it's an accident. Actually, I know it's not an accident, right? Jesus is using something like uh father, mother, children, siblings, um, uh, wife, right? So, the these are the closest relationships that one would likely have in in their life, right? Pick one of those or all of them. Um and and then it's it's this if these things are actually standing in a place

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  surrounding you keeping you from receiving the fullness of my presence from receiving the the the my image imprinted upon you then then that is um as Deuteronomy talks about like you're you're actually choosing an idol. You're ch you're choosing something other than God. And these, you know, again, the closest relationships, blood relationships, ones we choose, even ones that come from us, our own children, spouse, um, and then family members, like if if these are are ones who are, um, encircling you, um,

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  and and not being where it's and keeping you from being filled with the presence of God, being formed in his image and and the the fullness of God, the tove that that he wants to to pour out upon us then actually or not we're walking in the way that even as Deuteronomy 30 talks about like uh choose life right you choose death choose life put it before you you choose um and in in 30 it's the warning that in the past you've chosen other gods other idols uh instead of me instead of God and so in this way

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  like what I'm hearing in in in what Jesus is talking about Luke 14 is like the these things are the closest the closest relationships you you could possibly have. And if these are replacing me, then you're not following me. Actually, you don't have a part with me. And actually, you can't take my name. Right. Well, and I think you're right. I think it was it's intentional that that those are the things that Jesus calls out. Um both because of what you're saying. Yes. These are the

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  relationships, the closest um things to us and probably the the easiest some of the they represent some of the easiest things for us to misprioritize. Um but I also think that there's something in the fact that he's these things he's calling out like let's not miss that uh these are also important good things that God has given. And so the the contrast here is not just it's not walk away and and give no mind to pay no attention to. He's not saying that they have that these things have no place in

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  your life, right? But what he's calling out is like they can't take the place I'm supposed to be in. Like they can't they can't exist where I'm supposed to. Yeah. If we mis prioritize them and now they become a barrier for you to um be imprinted with my image and to be uh to to be my disciple, to follow me. Yeah. Yeah. And so what he's really saying is like there's this there's this aspect of like make sure you're doing these things the right way and let me if if you'll

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  put all that down and you stop trying to figure out the right way. Yeah. Let me let me show you the way. Because I'm even thinking like the things that we So so in that illustration um the the few examples that we had you hold to represent the tre the things that we tend to treasure uh over God in certain places in our lives. Right. So, family, money, work, um, and our own self-image. Those were kind of the or or our self-preservation or however that might look for us. Um, those were the the

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  things that we called out. But those also, most of those, and I'm trying to think through this in real time, those also have uh have a place in the practices that we called out of Jesus. So he's not saying pay no attention to money, but there's an aspect of generosity um that like when you prioritize your finances in the right space, when I sit first and you prioritize that, right, then you actually get to be an example, you get to be a a a picture of the radical generosity that I have or or when you

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  prioritize the relationships in your life, your family, your friends, whatever. When you prioritize that in the correct space, then you get to show up in community the way I designed you to as long as I'm still first. And so those things have a have a correlation where he's not saying like don't don't pay any mind to these things. He's saying like make sure I'm first because then if you shape your life after me, I'll actually help you handle those things the way they were designed to.

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  Yeah. In fact, actually what flows out of that is uh what I'm reminded of is Isaiah 58. like now we're we're shaped in the image of God. Jesus uh we're following Jesus and uh uh he's uh first uh and and and we're now looking and sounding more like Jesus and everything flows out of that and becomes a like in Isaiah 58 this well-watered garden. Um but it's it's in the prioritizing these things. So it's it's in this in this space like these are good things. These are things that

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  God has um offered us resources and relationship um and things in our life to um to use and to utilize as tools and as and as and and to and to enjoy uh the life that that we're that we're living in. God's given us these gifts, but if these gifts now become something that we are uh putting ahead of of Jesus or we put it on the mantle, the thing to worship or like I just need to take care of my stuff or I just need to I need to figure this out and we haven't actually consulted Jesus. We haven't actually

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  come to him like Jesus, you're the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the father except through me. It isn't through these other things that get me into the presence of God. Or it isn't these other practices that um are the are the ticket in. It's you, Jesus. So even the even in the practices that we called out, do they help us come closer to an understanding of who God is and who I am because of him and to shape my life that the overflow of my life shaped like Jesus and the presence of him and

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  that that being a priority in my life that everything else flows out of that. Are they not um are those things not better off? Are they not even even things go go poorly? Right? So even if my health fails and I am struggling uh uh health-wise and I'm navigating health issues that if Jesus is still priority in my life that I still navigate those health issues but my my focus or my eyes are fixed on him that that likely I'm able to endure even some of the hardest moments and and even some of the

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  champions of faith have we not seen that to be the case that even in the hardest moments of life they've kept their eyes fixed on Jesus kept the kept Jesus as the as the the godhead in their life. Um uh and and worshiping him that they're able to endure uh even even those things when they aren't going well. Yeah. Yeah. Um well, and I think Okay, so I was going to hold on to this for for next week, but I'll just trust God will give us something else. Um because that's what was cool about so we came

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  came out of that Sunday and then Sunday evening I was working on this coming week's message um which we're going to be talking about God um and just the way that he restores. Yeah. Um so walking with Jesus and being formed in the way that he restores and the the picture that uh is coming to mind as I was preparing that message but as you're talking now and even in a conversation I got to have at the end of uh service on Sunday this past Sunday. um this it's this picture of almost like

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  those things that we hold that we've put onto ourselves. As I lay those down, sometimes there's a ripping away or a tearing away that feels like this open gaping wound that's like that actually is really painful. It's painful to set down things that I there's almost like this like there's been this growth on me, right? Like that I have to like we have to cut this away to set this down. Um, but the conversation I was having uh Sunday after church with somebody was like the the beauty of who God is is

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  that he's not like tear that away and now you're walking around with these open gaping wounds. Um he's like I'm going to actually cover all that for you. I'm going to heal you and restore you. And so there's this beautiful like we're not just being um one of the things uh that we've been in the last couple years is we've been on this journey uh you and myself and a number of other pastors we've been on this very intentional journey of spiritual formation and unpacking even like what

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  this is and what it looks like. And part of what uh we've talked about in that is the process of actually being deformed before we're reformed to the image of God. Yeah. And so in that like process, God like in God's goodness, he's not like, "Okay, you need to like be deformed from all the things that you've you've put on." And now good luck to you. But there's this beautiful like, I'm going to reshape you into something whole. I'm going to cover those wounds. I'm going

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  to heal those places. I'm going to restore you back to what should have been. And in that, all of those things that you've laid down, I'll put those where they're supposed to be. Um, they don't have to be some of some of them are going to fall away and you're not going to pick them back up. Like that would be the goal, right? God's like, some of those things you actually you those have no place in your life. But some of those things are good things that I've given that you've just they've

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  grown into a different place than they're supposed to. And so I'm just going to heal and restore that back to where they're supposed to be. Um, that's such a beautiful like so all that in Luke 14. I don't know if I would say anymore that Luke 14's a hard word. I'm like, there's so much promise in there for me. Um, and and we couldn't and we couldn't start anywhere else when we're talking about walking with Jesus in a journey of formation. That this is the this is what

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  Jesus offers us to to to take on his image, to be called his people, his disciple, to take on his name. That that there is a that formation piece, the deforming, right? We've we we put on maybe some things that now we don't actually look like him anymore. We need to some surgery. Um some heart surgery. We need we need to be formed into the image of of Jesus. And and in doing so, he's like, "And I'll cover that with my presence." And and in a healing kind of way. And you're

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  not going to be out there in the wild um open to all kinds of attacks. Um, when we're doing this formation work, I am going to cover you. And the things that come uh that remind you or tempt you or offer you a lie that this work is somehow not worth it, I'm going to remind you that you're taking on it my image. And and what what better place to start than in this one in Luke 14 about the um you know denying ourselves, picking up the cross and following him. This is a daily sort of this is a daily

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  invitation and a daily act that every day I wake up I have to choose right even goes back to Deuteronomy 30 choose life or choose death. Every day I wake up I have to choose today will I will I follow Jesus today will I put him on or or will I allow something to to attach itself to me to to to form me in a way that God hasn't designed or desired. And that's a daily and then a picking up the cross. Would I sacrifice what I want, what I desire and pick up the cross and follow Jesus in it and be uh

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  uh surrendered to uh his will and his way to his kingdom work in the world. That's a daily practice, a daily walk. So when we talk about walking with Jesus in a journey of formation, what better place to start than here? But also, we don't get left here because next week, as you alluded to, we talk about this res restoration work that God desires to do within us and and that covering piece and the the putting him on and and being being covered by his righteousness. Like, that's a beautiful promise we get to live into,

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  but still is a daily choice, decision, and practice to walk it out. Yeah. So, good. So, as we um as we're kind of wrapping up, what's the I mean, I feel like this whole conversation is like here's what's still sticking, but uh what's the chyros? What's God saying for you now? Yeah. Uh I think um some is this transition not transition but this in between right in between of this like we said Luke 14 hard word of uh deny everything hate um even these closest relationships and and even

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  yourself and pick up the cross and follow me and um and in the midst of that count the cost. So I think in this in between of that word and the restoration word that that we get in Luke 15 which we'll be in into next week is this. All right. So have I done the work of counting counting what it will and and what it will take and and like the like the builder uh like the like the king. Um uh and and in doing so is there a conscious okay Lord I choose you. I choose you and these things are yours

  00:29:08 - 00:30:30

  anyway. And so as I go into this formation process, formation journey um and God's doing some surgery and I'm open-handed with that. Okay, I I'm I'm I'm I've counted and um that daily I guess I go back to that waking up every morning daily decision. Okay, Lord, I am yours and this day is yours and I will surrender myself and everything in it. It's good. It's good. Uh for me, it's it's actually I it's similar. Um so counting the cost, but also uh so so at the end of Sunday

  00:29:49 - 00:30:52

  um actually as you were praying at the end of this s the message um I had this thought of like uh the word identity which is funny to me that this didn't hit until then because we talk spend a lot of time talking about identity. So, as we were talking about formation and how we've been formed, I I can't believe that I didn't get to identity before that moment. Um, but in that space, it was like, oh, the things that I'm holding and the things that I'm carrying, um, they shape us and they

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  form us in ways that that don't look like Jesus. That's what this whole conversation has been, right? um what they're doing is they're they're uh giving me a different identity than the one that's true and the one that God has ascribed to me. Um and and so in that as you're praying, as I'm thinking through that was this reminder of like the other thing that sometimes uh the other thing I need to lay down when we're talking about denying ourselves. So the things

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  we treasure, the things that burden us, also the stories and the lies that we've believed about ourselves. Um, and so that um, for me and and then it's funny because I had that thought as you were praying and then we went and sat down and Leberon started and that's kind of where he started and he started talking about identity and so then I even like leaned over to you and I was like that's a piece. Um, and so I I you were able to even kind of bring that in at the end um, which was really really good. Even I

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  don't know if it was good for anybody else but for me it was like yeah that's a that's a word. Um, and so this reminder, um, and even in this week back it back back into some, uh, more predictable rhythms as with fall and school, um, I was able to get back to a practice, um, that was sporadic during the summer, but able to start the mornings, um, outside, just me and God in the mornings. Um, and in that, um, that came out of a number of months ago, realizing that I did not regularly

  00:31:43 - 00:32:33

  remind myself of who God says that I am. Um, and so in doing that, even in just the last few days since Sunday, um, the what that does for me is help call out the places that I've maybe started to believe something about myself that isn't true. So when you talk about counting the costs, that's a similar thing like I'm counting like where are the spaces? I'm taking stock of like God, is there something that I've put on? And maybe it's a treasure or a burden, but also it might be an internal

  00:32:08 - 00:33:01

  like this is a story I've believed about myself. um and it's actually not who you say that I am or it's not who you are. So, both of those things like is there is there an identity uh in myself or an identity of God that I've believed that I've picked up that I've put on that isn't true that God's asking me to lay down in this day or in this season or whatever. Um and so that uh that's the reminder. It feels like God's like don't forget who you are and who I am. Um, and

  00:32:35 - 00:33:41

  so then the the what comes out of that is like, yeah, there needs to be an intentional, like you said, it's a daily every morning. Here's who you say I am, God, and here's who you are. And if anything else that I've believed about myself or you stands in contrast to that, then I I'm going to do the work to set that down. Um, yeah. So, yeah. Sweet. I I love these conversations, uh, these Beyond Sunday conversations, ones that we were having long before we started recording this podcast, but it is like

  00:33:06 - 00:34:08

  we're we're sitting down to um to share what it is that God has has um challenging and with us us with and and encouraging us and and also it's like God's pulling up a chair and like I'm here to yes, wrestle with these things, remind you of who I am and who you are because of me and um I'm here to to enjoy this with you. And that's that's the sense that I have enjoyed is that God's sitting down to like I'm I'm here to enjoy this with you. Let's let's

  00:33:39 - 00:34:35

  walk this out. So good. Yeah. Well, thanks guys for joining with us in this episode. And uh we hope and pray that your conversations are going beyond Sunday and that maybe too in those spaces that you're sharing in in conversation about what God's doing and what he's saying and how you're responding uh that you also get the uh sense that God's pulling up a chair to enjoy the conversation with you. So we'll see you guys next time. [Music]