Beyond Sunday S2: Love in the Now and Not Yet
Catch up: this week’s Sunday morning message.
The word “love” is one of the sloppiest words in our language, as it primarily refers to a feeling that happens to a person. But in the New Testament, “love,” or “agape,” refers to a way of treating people that was defined by Jesus himself. It means to seek the well-being of others regardless of their response. The Messiah’s coming is ultimately an act of love—God with us, God for us- regardless of how we receive Him. The hymn envisions unity, redemption, and divine mercy. Love is not abstract here; it’s incarnate in the coming of Christ. We live now in the reality of His love and long for the day when that love will fully reign—when all creation is reconciled in Christ. We can rejoice, not because all is fulfilled yet, but because fulfillment is coming. This dynamic tension of the now and not yet is the essence of Advent… and the reality of being a Jesus-shaped church. Will we embrace the love being offered this Christmas season?
Catch up: this week’s Sunday morning message.
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Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Beyond Sunday podcast. I'm Devin and I'm here with uh my friend Shre. How are you doing? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Great. Um this uh episode is in the fourth Sunday of Advent. Um but before we dive into the conversation, take a look at this video. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. All right, guys. Welcome back. Uh Devin, this week you you already called it out. This was our fourth Sunday of Advent. Um so start us off with the big idea. What
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scriptures we were in? Well, and uh this theme for the fourth Sunday of Advent is love. >> Uh throughout our Advent season this year, it has been um these themes been the now and the not yet. The now that Advent calls our attention to uh is that Christ has come and all that he offers us through salvation, life with him. And then not yet um is the uh Jesus coming again. And and so through these themes of Advent, we come to the fourth one on love. And um I mean we we were in some of the same scriptures but also in some
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of the different ones. some like Isaiah 7 and the um the word that uh God gives uh the the the king of Judah through Isaiah uh that then calls us back to Matthew 1, which is the angel talking to Joseph about Mary and that she is with child uh from the Holy Spirit and we'll we will call his name Emanuel. calling our attention back to the Isaiah 7 scripture. Um, and then another one that sort of um I didn't go into too much depth, but the Romans chapter 1, Paul's letter to the church in Rome. Um,
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really encapsulating here is who Jesus is. Here's Jesus the Christ, the Messiah, who he is and um and what he came for and what he represents even to us now. even though he as the time Paul writes this letter to the church in in Rome, Jesus has ascended into into heaven. And so then the the like hold to this truth of who Jesus is. >> Yeah. >> Don't let that slide away. Don't let it fade away into history or um but hold to this truth that this is who Jesus is. God with us.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. So, in all of that, you already kind of called this out because I actually think this is one of those weeks. Um, well, I think it's all cool that this this journey of um prepping and and using the RCL and our teaching teams and congregations speaking into it is cool for a lot of reasons and sometimes we've called this out before, but sometimes um we're God gives us kind of the same thing and sometimes different. And this week we were we were kind of in different um some different
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scriptures, but also just maybe a little different direction. So what was landing for you? Um or what is still landing for you? >> Yeah, I think uh one of the things even in the prep of studying and like um for me in the in looking through Isaiah was weird like the kingdom of Judah is is under threat of being invaded from these two other kingdoms that have come together. And God says this isn't going to happen. >> And so ask for a sign. Mhm. >> So, the king of Judah says, "I won't do
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it." Isaiah's like, "Really, you're going to put God to the test? Here's your sign." And the sign is that there will be a child that's born, >> right? >> Um, a virgin would be with child and give birth, and you'll call his name Emanuel. And I'm reading the scripture thinking like, "That's the sign." Mhm. >> Well, as you keep reading into Isaiah, Isaiah chapter 8, Isaiah chapter 9, Isaiah chapter 10, ongoing throughout the next successive chapters, it's
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telling the story of both the now that there is a child that is born in the very next chapter. Um, and then more of the language of Emanuel, God with us, right? And is repeated through chapter nine, continuing into 10. More of this promise uh that God is with us. >> Yeah. uh or for the the nation of Judah, God is with with you. God is with you here. Not you're not forgotten. Yes, you're under threat of attack. God says this won't take place. God is with you. Uh and and that's the now. The not yet
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though is 700 years later, Joseph is is contemplating in his mind this the situation scenario that sits before him. >> Yeah. the the woman I am pledged to be married to uh is found to be with child. And so he thinks right this even gives us in Matthew chapter 1 this uh after he's considered all these things right then the angel in his in his dream speaks to him and gives him clarity about you had in mind to divorce her quietly not to disgrace her but to go your separate ways. uh you had considered these things and
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that was going to likely be the next day >> right >> events of what was going to take place whatever needed to take happen and in that e in that night and in his dream the angel speaks to him gives him clarity like no Mary has been um the Holy Spirit has has has come upon her she is with child uh you'll call him Jesus and this is what was spoken to back in Isaiah when um the king of Judah was not willing to ask for a And Isaiah gave him one anyway. And this is a child will be born. A virgin will be will give
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birth to a child. You'll you'll call his name Emmanuel. And that is in in in Joseph's dream after he's considered these things, >> right? >> And then the clarity comes in like then then he wakes up um takes her as um his wife and though does does not uh consummate the marriage until after Jesus is born. Mhm. >> 700 years prior. Like this is a crazy amount of time to think that here now is another fulfillment of this promise that existed back when Isaiah was offering it
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to um King Ahaz. >> Yeah. Yeah. And actually, um, I think this is this podcast specifically is a cool place to call this out and and it really doesn't have anything to do with Sunday, but part of what was cool in that is that uh we got to wrestle that out and figure out. So, so if the purpose of this podcast is um I mean the reason we call it Beyond Sunday is like this is a place to take the conversation beyond like just what you hear from the platform or what we speak from the platform or
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whatever. Um, and in that last week as we're preparing and prepping for these messages, um, yeah, there's a space and a moment on the front end where we're like, Isaiah 7 is confusing. This actually doesn't make sense. Like, what? And and my question and and maybe similar to yours, but I'm looking at that like, how can this be a sign? It doesn't happen for 700 years. >> So, yeah, I'm going to give you this sign, but you're going to be long dead, so just trapped. And I was like, that
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doesn't make sense. And and so um in that space, what I think is cool is that we um uh I don't know, this is a natural normal thing that exists for us both with one another and also in other spaces. But in that moment, it's like, okay, let's figure out then let's figure out what this is and what God's saying. And we get to we get to spend some time like reading and researching and and like trying to figure out and then come to this understanding. That's super cool. even the way you just put it, like
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that is a sign for the now and the not yet. Um and and all of a sudden, you know, there's that light bulb moment of like, wow. But in that, and I bring it up now because um that's the invitation. >> Uh that's what we have found to be such a gift. Um even long before we started this podcast, right, those kind of conversations where it's like, >> yeah, and I'm reading this and I don't know if it makes sense or or we talk a lot about asking better questions and not just taking what we're reading for
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like, okay, well, it's just the Bible. It's weird. um but like asking questions that God then gets to use to reveal something new to us that we didn't know about who he is or who we are or how the world works or whatever. Um and that's the invitation that's our heart even behind this podcast, right? Is like that as people are watching maybe it helps them go like, "Oh, hey, >> I could do that too. I could I could ask that." And so this week maybe um just is stands in a really obvious way of like,
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"Yeah, we actually we did that this week." Um >> yeah, it felt like um a treasure hunt. >> Yeah, >> a treasure hunt of God's goodness, of the truth, uh foundation pieces that um on on one side, you could look at the foundation, be like, "That's great. That's true. How cool." Yet, even as you study, look deeper on this treasure hunt, you're like, "Oh my goodness, >> that's so much bigger and grander and um deeper than I could have imagined even
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just looking at it from a distance, right? >> When I get in there with a magnifying glass and I'm like, and then I'm also thinking like I probably if I had a microscope that had a stronger power of magnification, there'd be even more." Mhm. >> Right. That's the it's the statement of of of God to King Ahaz in the beginning of Isaiah 7 of like at the at the deepest depths or the highest highest heights >> Mhm. >> ask for a sign, >> right? >> Like you couldn't imagine, right?
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>> So ask >> as big as you can possibly get. Yeah. >> Ask for a sign. And he and he won't he won't do it. But Isaiah then gives him the sign. But that's the piece here like um at the at the deepest depths and the highest heights I I I probably could only I'm only able to perceive so much. I only have so much magnification power to as I and more gets uncovered. And that's what last week in preparation for Sunday felt like. >> Yeah. And it's the it gives the image I
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I know I've said this before, but Marty in the Bay podcast talks about uh the the mindset of being able to exist in the tension because that's what that requires, right? Reading a scripture that doesn't make sense the first time or at face value or whatever. Um I don't know, there is a tendency to just like move past it. At least that's at least growing up. There was not this invitation to like sit in it and wrestle with it. Like if it doesn't make sense, like just trust it's God. Move on. Um,
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but in the willingness to sit in the tension and recognize like >> like you just said, there's pro likely a lot more that we're still not understanding. But Marty uses the image of this like uh an an old Jewish man dancing in anticipation of like this doesn't actually make any sense, but I know it will, and when it does, >> it'll be so good. And that's some of what um >> I I don't know. I guess that's that stands out to me in this last week. And I was going to say it has nothing to do
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with love and what we were talking about on Sunday, but I'll say the ultimate piece on Sunday for me um was this remembrance or this recognition of like the good news of the gospel is that God is with us. And that's what we've been talking about all all month. And yes, what Jesus did on the cross and salvation, but that started all of that started in a moment where God chose to be with us in a way that he had not been since creation. >> Yeah. Um, >> and that's what I would even say that I
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mean I call it out on Sunday like none of these verses are necessarily specific about love. Like we're not reading um 1 Corinthians 13. We're not reading love passages of of God is love, right? We're actually talking about Jesus and actually a prophetic word back in Isaiah that speaks to the love that God has for his creation and his people to provide a rescuer that also 700 years later exists in Jesus coming into this world. >> Yeah. And in that, that's the that's the
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gift. That's the peace is like um that's what love is. God was like, "I love you so much. I want to be with you." >> Yeah. >> Um >> Yeah. We very easily could have been like, "And this is John 3:16." >> Yeah. >> This is the the the scope of >> Well, and I called that out on I did call that out on Sunday like >> that's what that is. But it's not the it's not just what Jesus did on the cross. >> Correct. Yes. Right. Yes, that's a part
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of it. >> Yeah. >> But the good news of the gospel is that God is with us and right here, right now. >> Um, and that piece even as we wrestle through scripture, if that's what if that's the ultimate lens through which I am always approaching this, there's this recognition of like this doesn't make a lot of sense, but what I do know is everything in here is is through this understanding of a God who says, I just want to be with you. >> Yeah. I I I want to be with you. I want to be near
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you. When you're when you're need a rescue, here I am. Right? That's the the psalm that we were looking at as well, Psalm 80 of just repeated like a refrain in a song. Uh may your face shine upon us. Rescue us, Lord. And um and and I guess that's through I see that through this Isaiah 7 prophetic word that God gives through Isaiah to the to King Ahaz that then we see the angel offering to Joseph as he's considered all these things and um it's considered like I'm going to divorce her quietly and move
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on. >> Yet God's got something else in store. and through Mary and the faithfulness of Joseph and bring Jesus into this world. >> Yeah. >> Uh in in in humble beginnings to be with his creation, >> right? >> What Psalm 80 calls out, may her face shine upon us, rescue us, >> right? See us in our in our need. See us in the place we're at. Um and and rescue us. >> Yeah. be with us. Hear our cry. >> And that that is what we were designed for. And that that is like
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that's the evidence of the kingdom here. That's like heaven touching earth, right? And we um we've been reading first and second Peter weekly for a couple months now. Um and so even in preparation for this that wasn't uh those were not scriptures in the lectionary but that came to mind and um I talked about on Sunday because in first Peter 1 Peter is talking about the prophets Isaiah and others um that their messages were about this good news that would come 700 or whatever years later.
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Um and he says it's all it it is also wonderful that even the angels are eagerly watching these things happen. And in that there's just for me was this image of like when we accept and receive like the good news of the gospel. Yes, Jesus as as savior and and redeemer, but also just like a God who pursues and desires nearness and closeness. When we accept that, it's like this that's the restoration and the reconciling. And it and it's to the point of the angels like eagerly watching to rejoice like
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>> um another person Yeah. >> said yes. >> Right. And I suppose that also then speaks to the now of right here and now that those who say yes to um Jesus and salvation and and redemption and reconciliation back in right relationship with God another one in the now and and there is a not yet right even even Peter calls it out in um >> I don't know chapter 3 don't quote me on that but it's like don't don't think that God is slow >> yeah don't >> don't think that God is slow but he He's
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patient, not wanting anyone um uh to to >> perish >> to perish to pass away that to to to not have a chance to say yes to this invitation. >> Yeah. >> of God with us and the Holy Spirit in us. And that was I suppose the question that that I where I ended that on Sunday was like are we can we embody Advent? >> Yeah. Can we in can we be an advent kind of people that embody hope, peace, joy, love in in a way that um those we come in contact with, >> right? You you say this often to bump up
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against that what would come out would be that >> not the hurry, not the anxiety, not the fear. Um uh but but the these characteristics of God, Jesus, the presence of Jesus, God with us, the Holy Spirit comes out uh to those we engage with, come in contact with um wherever God said this. >> Yeah. >> That that's what would spill out. >> Yeah. And there's something about being we we've said it every week um in this series, but like the dynamic tension of the now and the not yet is a reality of
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being a Jesus-shaped church. And that that idea of like calling towards what will be because there is there is more to come uh fullness and completeness >> to come. So calling towards that uh partnering uh with the reconciling God is doing towards that while also recognizing those things in the here and now because of Emanuel God with us. >> Yeah. Yeah. that that is a not only invitation to come in the presence of Jesus and say yes and and be filled with the Holy Spirit but also like you said
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partner as being ambassadors of this ministry of reconciliation because we call and we are witnesses to the the reconciliation that's taken place in our life >> it's not it's it the work of salvation has been done we said yes to Jesus but we're work continuing to work out our salvation our our righteousness before the Lord Not that it's about doing, >> right? >> But in this this posture of I know that my identity is firmly founded in in Jesus. He's spoken it into me. I am his.
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I'm his beloved. >> Yeah. Yes. >> And out of that I so desire to be obedient >> to to that this identity so reflects Christ. I desire to be obedient to them >> and because of God with us and his nearness, I am so close to him and so filled by him >> that actually not only yes in in in some ways and many ways there is this choice of obedience. Absolutely. >> And I'm so full of the spirit that it is love and joy and peace and patience. Those that fruit of the spirit that I
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actually can't manufacture myself. We've talked about this before. That's how the fruit of the spirit uh often gets taught. Like have a little more patience, be a little more gentle. And it's like actually spend a little bit more time being filled by the spirit. So that that in a supernatural kind of way is what's coming out of you. >> Yeah. >> And all of that ties back to only being possible >> because of God with us. >> Yes. All right. So I there's many chyros
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probably in all of what we've covered, but would you say that from Sundays or today is there is there a chyros what God is inviting you into saying and how you are um sensing a call to respond? >> Yeah. Uh what's hitting what's what's landing right now for me? Um and not again I this was not what I had in mind when we started this conversation but um I think the chyros is the reminder of the importance of the the wrestling with scripture and the recognition of uh the need for community
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at that level having those people uh living in such a way that that's a natural part because there's so many pieces not only what we got to you know wrestle out and see some cool things in the treasure hunt in this week Um but the way that so God with us and everything we just talked about the spirit in me, the spirit in you. Um when I am in close community with somebody who is filled with the spirit, I get to see reflections of God's character that I otherwise don't notice. Um and so in
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this conversation right now, that's that's the reminder that lands for me is that um yeah, if I desire nearness to God and to know more of him and his character, um that comes in a big way through the people around me and through living uh living in such a way that's like I we can ask questions. We can wrestle this out together and God will show us. I'll dance in anticipation of what he's yet to show and reveal. >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh um for me the chyros uh at the end of church on Sunday
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um had a really there's a moment of like I was like Devon stop talking >> Devon you Devon >> me >> oh okay I was like dang >> the sense was Devon's here so I was like who was talking >> the sense was God was like Deon stop talking >> okay >> about how much I love them and let me say it >> and so I was like Okay, I set it out. I mean, that's what I share with the congregation, the church family. Like, I'm going to stop talking. I'm going to
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pray. Um, and and if you would like more prayer um and and to hear God remind you you are his beloved, he loves you, then come and pray or pray, whatever, respond in whatever way you sense God is leading you. But I think that's even the echo to today as we um have this conversation is um I yeah I don't I don't necessarily know if the chyros is stop talking and let me say it but I think the invitation is uh maybe less of your words and trust the spirit to lead you um in your own life
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and to speak that life into into me. I am >> Yeah, I was going to say son. Do you think that word was maybe? >> I am the son of son of the king. I'm I'm God's beloved. Um whom he sent his son for. Um and he calls to me. Uh that that there's I think so that's probably a thing behind the thing there at the at the heart of it. Uh but I think there also is a response too piece for that um in the in in ways that I show up in in the world like um yeah not offering necessarily just that
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prepackaged here God loves you but but in ways that is be unique to where they're at. >> Yeah. >> Here's why the good news is good news. >> Which is what I talked about Sunday. >> Yeah. And that was my that was the prayer on my heart for you Sunday morning. God remind Devon that he is loved. And I wonder in um because we t I talked about this on Sunday too but like is the first thing I believe about myself about who I am that I am God's beloved. Right? So John John describes himself as
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the one Jesus loved. >> And is that because he was like I'm so much better than the rest of you. Or is that every time he calls that out is that a reminder of like my identity before anything else I am? >> So be is is the first thing the most true thing I believe about myself that I am God's beloved. Mhm. >> And everything else, all the other intricate ways he made me or or different things about me, um those are true too, the things he says are true are true, too. But first and foremost,
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>> is the thing I most believe about myself. And Devon, that goes back to because because I did on Sunday uh for me and uh we didn't we didn't talk about this, but um this idea of the gospel is good news for everybody, but why it's good news is different. That was a huge echo for me for like a month before this message. So I did not have that on my radar for this message, but it kept coming up in multiple conversations and spaces where it was this reminder that like yes, the gospel is good news, but
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the reason it is for me, the the power of the gospel is that the reason it's good news for me may be different than it is for you because of your worldview, because of your experiences, whatever. Um that continuous reminder. And so even on Sunday, I called out like here's here's a number of different reasons that the gospel may land as good news for you and and actually it does matter um or it it's beneficial to understand like that's why um and to remember that because it helps us to like hey the way
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I receive and give love looks different than the way that you do and right all those pieces but at the end of the day at the very bottom piece of that is this like God with us is is the reminder. It's the proof. It's the evidence. You are my beloved. >> And more than anything else that's true about you is that you are God's beloved. >> Yeah, that sounds like love. >> Sounds like God. >> Yeah. Well, guys, thanks for listening in and uh being with us on this episode
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of the Beyond Sunday podcast. We hope and pray that your conversations are going beyond Sunday that uh whether you're having uh treasure hunts uh through scripture uh or uh God revealing uh his word and in in in the conversations you have uh more truth about uh who God is and who you are because of him. Uh we uh we hope to pray that for you and uh we'll uh we'll see you back next week. Take care.
