Beyond Sunday: Reminding Us of the Destination
Catch up: this week’s Sunday morning message.
Sometimes we find ourselves alone, yet God is with us. He has not abandoned us and draws us closer to Him. In His presence we approach with a humble spirit desiring to be ever closer. As we walk with Jesus do we approach God with a humble spirit?
Catch up: this week’s Sunday morning message.
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Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Beyond Sunday podcast. And uh on this one we have a a special guest. Well, really he is a special guest, but uh he's no uh unfamiliar face to this. So Josh is with us today. How you doing, Josh? >> I'm good, thank you. >> Good. uh and Shrea and myself as usual per usual. So, um before we dive in though, uh take a look at this video. All right, welcome Welcome back uh in this uh discussion conversation uh Sharia what was the big idea what was the some
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of the scriptures that we were uh looking into this week? >> Uh yeah so we were uh talking about kingdom breakthrough. So in this context in this series on uh a journey of formation and what it looks like um to recognize or experience kingdom breakthrough. So, uh kind of all over which is pretty normal. But, um for us, we started in Isaiah 65 um with this like really uh beautiful promise of what will be and what what is coming. Um and so, yeah, we were there and then gosh, we actually went all over um Genesis and
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Exodus and Hebrews and all the places. So, I don't know, Josh, for you um what was landing. We were uh in a lot of scriptures that weren't in the RCL this week. um just kind of where I felt the spirit leading. Um so I'm not sure where you spent most of your time. >> Well, I kind of went through all of them and then the only one that I added at the end was in Hebrews and just talking about Christ, you know, and and and uh kind of the, you know, the joy that he took on and and dying for our sins and
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and enduring the cross. So that was I added that at the end. That was probably the only one that I that I put um in addition to the other ones. And I I try the best I can to pull all those things together and find that common thread. And sometimes it's a little bit of a challenge, but it's a fun challenge, too. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, what was landing for you then in in looking at all of those um and this idea of kingdom breakthrough? Well, the the the first thing is what was interesting is when when Pastor
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Devin asked me to do this because the last time that I had preached it was in Lamentations and it wasn't the most exciting um thing on there. And so >> he did that on purpose. >> I know. And so and I told him I said I usually live out these things prior to you know preaching on those. And so when he asked me I said well what's this one about? And he said kingdom breakthrough. I was like okay I'm in. I can do that one. let's have some kingdom breakthrough in my life this period of
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time these next few weeks >> and so I was super excited about it and then you know and as I I started kind of putting all this together then the idea of the mountain and you know climbing Mount HS for me was this profound experience that I had and it just seemed like the whole thing just kind of melted together with the verses and and what God was showing me and and I also the the cool thing was I just one of my really good friends >> uh we had this conversation prior to this of just that mountaintop experience
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cuz he was able to um have kind of one of those moments where he pulled himself away and had that mountaintop experience with the Lord and now he was kind of taking his trip down the mountain >> and we're we're having that discussion prior to all this. So it was like living out both on the mountain top experience for me but also seeing a friend walk through this very thing as well which was really cool. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So that's really funny that you used mountain uh examples or imagery
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because I did also and we didn't have any conversation about this, but that's what was landing for me. Um was uh and I don't know exactly how you use that illustration, but this idea that like when you're if you're hiking in the mountain uh area, um there's times when you can see the mountain and times when you can't, but you know it's still there. And so that idea of like in those moments when you come to a clearing and you're like, "Oh yeah, there it is
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again." That reminder. And that's what uh this idea of kingdom breakthrough. Uh for me, what was sitting was like um what I don't want to lose sight of is that in the spaces where it's hard for me to recognize or where maybe it's not super obvious that like here's God's kingdom right here. Uh I don't want to make the mistake of thinking that that means that that his kingdom isn't here or that he's not working. Um and so that idea of kingdom breakthrough and even
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the reminder in Isaiah um of like this is um like make no mistake that he is in the business of putting the kingdom back together and it's happening all around us at all times. Um, and so being able to call out like those big and little things where where we get to see that. And so, um, yeah, for me that's what was landing. This idea, I think I said multiple times, this idea of like we are kingdom people. Um, and we live in an empire world, a broken world, but we are kingdom people. Um, and so like it's
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it's in us to recognize these spaces, places. >> Yeah, absolutely. I think when I was part of one the discussion I had as as climbing up the mountain. Well, first of all, I have to tell you this because you'll appreciate this. So, I brought up my my boots that I climbed Mount St. Helens with. >> Nice. >> And they were uh kind of a tan color. They were Columbia boots. >> Yeah. >> And I was going to make the comment uh uh that, you know, my shoe game was better than Pastor Devon's shoe game.
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And when we went to prayer beforehand, I look at his shirt and he's wearing a Columbia shirt with the exact same colors as my boots. >> Nice. >> And I felt like he just won up me in that moment. So, I did call him up to to show that and I was really impressed and and I was a little sad that I didn't up that game. But, >> well, the thing is he probably didn't know that that color matched. So, you probably >> and that's what I found out afterwards. But that's even more impressive that he
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was able to do that without even understanding that. And anyway, so that was awesome. >> That's funny. >> But kind of going back to what you talked about, just seeing those visuals and stuff. And one of the things that that I as I was, you know, talking about climbing halfway through going up, I got just an horrible cramp. Like it was just brutal. >> And the the thing that God kind of spoke to me as we're seeing these things and you're you're looking up and you're
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seeing the horizon. you know, okay, it's just above beyond there and you're you're seeing these amazing views and all that kind of stuff, but on the way up, I think so many people and I and I said this that a lot of people are stuck in a spiritual cramp >> that there's these pains in life that they don't want to continue on. And I remember that thinking just, you know, I was checking out going, "Okay, take me down the mountain. That's it. This is brutal. I don't" And then I started
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worrying about, you know, like, "Is this going to happen again as I'm climbing up there?" But it was fellow hikers along the way that encouraged me and helped me continue on the path. So that at the top, not only did I just a was able to rest up there and just look at the beauty up there. It was funny because I didn't say this in the sermon, but we actually yodled and did this song at the top and videotaped it. >> And I thought about that afterward. I was like, that's the thing. Okay, we're
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we're singing on the mountain because there's this joyful experience and >> the the thing that happened down middle of the mountain was just part of the journey, you know? I mean, you can get scrapes and bruises and all kinds of things going up the mountain, but man, when you get up there, I don't care how bad it was, you forget about all of that. >> And so, um, that was the big thing that stood out to And just, you know, even going back and looking at pictures and I brought those up to everyone. I was
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like, that was such a beautiful day, you know, just looking around and seeing the view and the weather was perfect. And just the sights and the smells and the sounds and and being with people on the journey together, as hard as it was, it's like that's one of those like key moments in my life that I can always look back on. And I think that spiritually wise too that people I think we need to have those markers in our life of like this was a key moment for me. Don't forget about it. Like okay
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this was huge in my life. >> Yeah it was hard >> but man that moment with God that I had or the view that I had was so amazing that let it fuel other things in my life or other mountains that I'm going to have to go up against. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And that was the the the piece of the the I don't know it was the third point but the god of the mountain is the same god that's in the valley. So as you >> uh are talking about coming down and slipping um falling and uh fracturing
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your your arm your wrist and like the there is still the way down into the valley and and there'll be some some obstacles some uh struggles along that way though it may be different than the way up >> there still is that on the way down and God remains the same. And and one of the things that struck out to me and I and I it was just hit me so heavy on Sunday because the day before I'd been with a group of of uh churches, pastors, uh alumni from Warner Pacific University and um Warner is situated in the
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hillside of Mount Taber in Southeast Portland. Um it's a school I went to and graduated from. But as they're reaching out to, you know, partners, alumni, and like casting a vision, here's here's um the next season for Warner Pacific and um you know, wanting people to join in, right? Would you partner with us in the things that God's calling us into >> that we were praying around the table with some of their ministry, student ministry team? Um the uh the president of Warner was at the table with me and
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the chaplain was at the table with Sher and myself. And um we were we were praying and uh the the the picture or the the scripture of the transfiguration came to mind of Jesus up on the mountain with his three um Peter, James, and John. And there's this magnificent um display of you light and Moses and Elijah show up and Peter, James, and John are just not sure what to do. Like should we put should we erect an altar? This is really terrifying. And um this this moment happens and and um uh then
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then Jesus or they hear from heavens this is my son listen to him right it's recorded there in Luke and others this is my son whom I love and then they uh this moment ends transfiguration ends and he goes back with his with his three and he's like say nothing when we get down the mountain they still got to get down into the valley down the rest of the disciples but they've just had this the most incredible experience probably for Peter, James, and John to have encountered and um they're going to go
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back to walking this out with Jesus, other miracles, other other ministry opportunities. Um, but the picture that came to mind as we're sitting around the table praying is especially for Warner Pacific and I I shared this with the chaplain with Pastor Zo. Uh and I said the the the sense of the with the transfiguration and for for Warner is when students or or faculty or staff or guests come on campus with this campus situated there uh tucked you know into Mount Taber, may they hear this is my
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son and daughter whom I love. >> Wow. >> May they have this sense that there is a transformative work going on on campus. And so, uh, as I share that with Pastor Zo, I was hoping to encourage him. I sense that maybe it did. I don't know. Um, but because they're going to go back, they're going to go back to campus and they're going to be all the different things that exist there and and, um, but when you were then, uh, preaching and bringing the word of the just beyond the mountain and Mount St.
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Helens and being up at the crater and like I'm I'm here and you even today you're talking about singing a song of just yodelling or singing a song of like we've made it and of elation and celebration but there is still something to go back to >> and we don't always know what that journey back into the valley but God is the same and so that has been the like yes thank you God for being the same here on the mountain in the celebration as we sing uh praises and um celebratory
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like we victory we made it but also the same God in the valley in the midst of the whether it's the valley of the shadow of death or or or it's just a common peace whatever it happens to be that God is the same. >> Yeah. >> You know the other thing too that as I was saying just even you know I there's still stuff kind of rolling around my my brain on all this stuff but the idea the thing that made that mountaintop experience even more memorable was the pain. M >> and I a lot of times we think that you
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know when we're going through those things that we just want it to be absent of that >> but when I look at that that mountain now and this can be both spiritual mountains in my life >> or that in particular that the pain is part of the blessing of that because you knew that God sustained you in those moments >> and it's part of the story and it makes the story even better even though we go man I I wouldn't want to do that again, but it makes the story better. I I would
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have never thought from 2016 that I'd be preaching a sermon on me, you know, getting a cramp, breaking my wrist, climbing Mount St. Helens. I mean, you just think that that's part of the past. And so now, here's a story that, you know, I had someone just come give me a hug afterwards. I don't know how that impacted their life, but here's something that I went through that now is sharing, you know, that obviously was meaningful to that person. >> Yeah. um just by climbing a mountain and
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making that connection between our spiritual walk. >> Yeah. >> Um the other thing I I thought about through too is as I kind of went away from this because it's just like all these things keep flooding my mind. Um what's interesting you know I brought up about the fact that one of the climbers that we were with you know has scaled you know the top peaks in seven continents. Okay. Just totally an unassuming person which I thought about that too. Some of the people in our lives that are spiritual climbers are
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unassuming and instead of me I don't know if I told you know I said that in the beginning like it was a competition at the beginning with her like I was like oh look how far far I'm come you know compared to where she's at and she's climbed all these mountains stuff like that but if I would have stopped and watched her and just followed her lead without competing with her I would have done better climbing the mountain. >> The other thing that I learned too is the people who were slow climbing the
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mountain were sometimes faster. That the girl who was the slowest climbing was the fastest down. >> So, you can't also judge someone's spiritual speed or what they're doing based on how they're climbing. They're just climbing in a different way. Yeah. >> And uh that was something that spoke to me too because it was like you you just you don't know but it's the the the thing together and if churches could understand that and go like we are on this climbing experience together. Let's
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help each other out. It's not a competition. Some people are going to go slower than others but also look to the people who have climbed it before >> and follow their lead. and it's not a competition, but just follow their lead because they're going to help you climb them out and they've been there before and they're going to help you through that. So, >> I mean, that's the stuff that's been kind of sitting there in my brain for the last couple days. >> That's good.
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>> That's good. I think the other thing um so this was kind of what was landing for me and where we were kind of the where we were focused but even in light of what you guys were saying because there's uh some there is something about like okay if if uh like these mountain spiritual mountaintop kind of experiences that we have where it is it's like there's this kingdom breakthrough and so then like even you're talking about like uh that can get us through the valley moments or you
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know these uh help us remember who God is in those spaces. Um, but also I think there's something and this speaks to the character and nature of God and his goodness because uh I also think that there's times and spaces in the valley or as we're coming back down like maybe we have this this spiritual encounter or this this high moment or even like Devon you're talking about the transfiguration and maybe for Peter, James and John that moment is like this uh spiritual peak, right? But then they're also walking
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like yes they're headed back down into the valley um back to work but with Jesus to watch him do kingdom work. So, like, yes, maybe that was like, wow, what did we just witness and experience and we heard the voice of God speaking over the sun and whatever, but also like they're watching the kingdom break through regularly and there's all these thin places um where heaven is meeting, touching earth, maybe not in as uh like overwhelming of a way as that moment, but um they don't come off the mountain
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and then have to wait for another mountaintop experience. And I guess that's uh the the piece that was sitting for me in this idea of kingdom breakthrough is that um it's not only those overwhelming like I just uh was wrecked by the presence of God moment. Um there's also little things uh that if we will expect to see the kingdom, if we will be looking for it um and calling it out, then we get to recognize like the little places that God's touching um as well. And I think that helps uh in the
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in the in between moments while we're in the valley or while we're we're climbing up and we're cramping or we're coming down and you know whatever that looks like. Um even like uh you know conversations that we have with people or moments where seemingly small prayers are answered or even like I I uh have talked about this a couple times but we had our grateful gathering this Wednesday. I know you guys had one as well. And uh for us, there's this moment where I'm kind of standing back and I'm
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listening, everybody's sitting around tables and uh just the way that everybody sat down, we kind of ended up with like adults um and teens and kids sitting at tables that weren't part of their family, right? So, we've got like elderly people sitting with all these little nine-year-old boys and and whatever. And I'm listening to the conversation and there's like questions uh that we're putting up asking to, you know, talk about what we're grateful for, thankful for. And I'm hearing these
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like generations interact and laugh and talk about like this is what I'm thankful for that God has given. And I had this kind of impression or this thought of like this is a glimpse of heaven. Like we're feasting together. The generations are mixed in all together. Um and we're talking about like we're we're in the presence of God right now talking about his goodness. This is a glimpse of heaven and it felt like a very thin place in that space. >> Um >> and so that reminder of like am I going
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to call that out? That's a kingdom breakthrough. And and there's so much there's there's pain and hurt represented in the room, right? I can look around and call out like this person's walking through it right now and this person's in a valley season and this is hard. And in that moment there's laughter and there's joy and there's a reminder like even what you're calling out Devon. Like everyone in this space is uh God's beloved son and daughter. And so, um, I think also for me that
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idea of like the am I re expecting and recognizing and calling out the ways that heaven's meeting earth even in the everyday and the small things. Um, >> as we as we wrap up this episode, uh, what would you say is the chyros? What is God saying and how is he inviting you uh to respond? Uh, I I'll go first. uh that the much I guess there was many things but much of where that lands for me is where you ended with Josh is the the valley vision or mountain music and I think even it it had some clarity today even
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shre as you're talking about in the the spaces that maybe we don't even expect it right we can um be in spaces where we expect this is going to be a mountaintop right I'm just I'm I've prepped myself I am anticipating but then there are spaces that maybe we don't antic anticipated that it it is uh uh the veil is thin, right? That we're we're experiencing um heaven meeting earth here in the in some of these spaces and and when they're unexpected that um I desire to to sing that mountain music. I
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desire to sing the the celebration and praises of God uh in those in those small moments. And one of those moments for me that I've been I've been it's been impressed upon me that even in the space of of really a hard season, we have somebody in our church who is uh just struggling physically in the hospital um on a ventilator. And so I'm they're praying in anointing and uh it was the the physical state of what exists the like what is makes it really hard to see. um kingdom come or heaven um it it just
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doesn't it's not thinly veiled. It's very thick and the physical presence or the reality of what is makes it hard to see the spiritual nature the the you know the the kingdom of God the heaven heaven coming to earth. And so, um, in in that part of that walking this out, recognition of that, Lord, will you help to pull the blinders off, pull the veil back so that that I can see you you are you are near, you are here. Your kingdom um is present even in the midst of a really hard situation and uncertain of
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what the um the outcome will be. And so that I I want to sing praises to God for he is the same in the in the valley as in the mountain. So I don't want my song to shift. Uh I mean maybe there is a sense of the lament but that ought to also pull the the veil back as well as I you know just expose that heart of like Lord Jesus you know you're a good God. What I see in front of me is not good. So you know unveil your presence please. So I think that's some of the invitation for me to walk out.
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>> Yeah. >> I would say that the thing for me that I thought of right after the whole time on Sunday because it was worship everything was really just kind of palatable in that moment. And I mean even even times of worship I had that vision too of kind like what sh what you were talking about just that like this is like this is what the kingdom looks like. this is this is what it just the sound there was a sound that was happening there. >> Yeah. And I got home and and just kind
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of contemplating everything and and uh like you guys know you're exhausted after after preaching and uh um I got home and but the thing that God shared with me after just thinking to go I was just thinking like this is just such a cool thing what he's doing and then he just kind of just showed me he goes this is only just a little taste. This is just just a like a little nibble, >> okay, >> of what I'm able to do. And and in one hand, I was just going, okay, you just kind of sit there and you're
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just in one on one hand you go, okay, how do I handle that? How do I handle that thought? Because I don't know that we could fully grasp how big that is. Mh. >> But then it really gave me excitement too for our church and and what God's doing because it just felt like he was communicating like I am leading you guys. I'm leading this congregation. And it may be different steps on the climb, but I'm leading you there. And it's just a taste. The the things that you've had
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so far are just a taste of what I'm able to do. >> And that that just left me at a place of just excitement and just singing my own song in that. But it is I have to have that reminder as well like and going through the valley, you know, my dad's going through some serious health stuff right now and having that that mindset of just like you know what in the midst of our struggle that we can still sing and because I can always look back and that's the the visual image of when I
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look at Mount It's like if I can do that, I there's other things that I can do. It there's something about those tough moments that reminds you go, okay, this isn't tough. This is a hard part of life, but I've been there before. I've had these moments before. And instead of getting to a point where I'm just like, you know, going, why God? Why? Um I think I need to switch that over to worship and praise because no matter what, he's still worthy. No matter if it's not going how I think it should,
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he's still worthy. And I think that's where that that kingdom our eyes open up to see things is when we just focus in on worship and then he begins to show us how his hand is working in that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So good. Just a taste. Um, >> yeah. I think for me kind of um maybe a little bit off of that, Josh, because you talked about like maybe some of that initial reaction as God speaking that word over you is like like um and and for me towards the end of the message, what was landing um we we we
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ended in Hebrews 12. And this is like one of my favorite uh parts of scripture because it's uh a call back to the Israelites um at the base of the mountain where they essentially are like, "No, uh this this invitation to come in here directly from you, God, is a little too scary. So, let's have let's have Moses play the the middleman and you tell him, he'll tell us kind of a deal." And um the the call out in Hebrews of like God's saying something again and and what he's telling you uh
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is that everything is going to be shaken and all of these things are going to fall away and be removed. But that the kingdom if if we are kingdom people and this kingdom breakthrough that we're or this yeah the kingdom that's breaking through that we're talking about is absolutely unshakable. And so this reminder of like we see glimpses, we've experienced parts of it. Um to what you're saying, like there's so much of it that we just don't even like we have no idea. Um but the promise that it's uh
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it's unshakable and all of this other stuff is going to fall away. Um and that will remain and and the way that that's tied into hearing the voice of the Lord. I think that's what's sitting for me. um that maybe one of the most powerful ways we experience the kingdom breaking through is the way that God speaks to us because we even took um kind of a journey from like creation through scripture and the story of scripture is essentially like we were designed to hear from God to be in relationship and
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communion with God and um most of the the story of humanity is him pursuing us to try to get us back to a place where he's like I'd like to speak to my people. I'd like to tell my children, "You're my beloved son and daughter." That kind of idea. And so, um, the reminder that like as the things are shaking and falling away, there's this invitation to hear directly from God. And in the places where maybe the veil feels really thick and I can't see the kingdom, um, I can hear from my father
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like this this voice of like, "Keep going. Keep going. I'm here. Um, the kingdom has not been shaken." And so um I guess in that the the chairos space for me is like both gratitude that God speaks um and also a desire of like uh I want to live life in such a way that I am uh always listening and always expecting to hear his voice. So um >> speaking of god god speaking this is this is what I find interesting. So this partnership that we have with both of our churches, >> yeah,
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>> you know, and the revised common lectionary and I stuck to all those verses through there and you went different places on there and we had different message and we didn't talk beforehand and we both landed on Hebrews 12. >> Yeah. Right. But you can't tell me that God is not working through both of those situations and that he doesn't speak because >> without us doing that and we both land in that same spot at the end, >> that's God speaking to both of our
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congregations, he's leading both of us in there. And so that anybody listening to this, he speaks and he speaks loudly today if we have ears to hear. >> So good. >> Yes. Good call out. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's awesome. >> That's good. Well guys, thanks for listening and tuning in to this episode of the Beyond Sunday podcast. Uh we hope and pray that your conversations are like this one going beyond Sunday and calling out the breakthrough uh breakthrough that you have seen in the
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past that are um are standing stones or witness stones of God's goodness uh that give uh a life and faithfulness to know that God is u moving and faithful uh and will break through. his kingdom will break through uh today and in the days ahead days ahead. So, thanks for thanks for tuning in. Have a have a great week.
