Beyond Sunday S2: The Lamb of God
Come and see… prophecy being fulfilled in the Christ (Messiah). Come and see… the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Come and see… the long awaited promise within the O.T. has come: God with us.
-
00:00:10
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Beyond Sunday podcast where we desire to take the conversation deeper. Um, I'm Devon and I'm joined uh with my friend Sherea. Uh, also joining us today is our special guest. Um, I'm going to prop you up, Max. Max uh is Yeah, there it is. Yes, Max is joining us. um brought the word at nextstep and uh so joining us in the conversation. Um so how are you guys doing? >> Awesome. >> Fantastic. All right. Before we dive into the conversation, take a look at
00:00:42
this video. Heat up here. Okay, as we dive into the conversation, um Shrea, uh you were uh got to have some respit, a little rest and relaxation on a beautiful weekend at the ocean and uh sunsets and all the business that there. Um and uh Max and I brought the word and so um but Sheree, you're going to walk us through this if you will to start us off as we dive in. So what was the big idea in some of the scriptures? >> Okay. Well, the big idea was supposed to be you guys can tell me how closely you
00:02:03
stuck to this, but the big idea was the lamb of God, right? So, we're in this season of Epiphany, which really is the um this is the beautiful like Advent is about anticipating God's going to come um and and anticipating uh and expecting things. And then Epiphany is like here it is. And so, we live in this space where um and I know we talked about this last week, too, but we live in this space where there's uh things that we're still longing for and waiting for. um the not yet kind of space of um
00:02:34
God's kingdom fully coming. But we also live in a place here where Jesus is with us. And so that's what this is. Um and we're walking through these weeks calling out the different ways that we see uh Jesus show up and and his divinity and his humanity. And so this week is lamb of God or this week was lamb of God. Um and I don't know, I'm curious to hear um I did get to watch your service. We were at the beach and so we um got to watch the Centria service. So, I got to hear uh your word,
00:03:00
but I'm interested, Max, to hear where you went and what scriptures you guys landed in and all of that. So, tell me uh tell me where you were. >> Wow. There's pressure. >> This is pressure here, right? >> No pressure. No pressure. >> No pressure. Right. Well, so for me, uh this was a was a a good one because I didn't The lamb of God is uh you know, kind of a not a cliche, but it's a very known a very popular viewpoint, right? So when I started looking at it, I I was
00:03:31
looking at it a little I approached it from I started with don't I don't remember how I got this but I started reading first Corinthians and uh the part in 1 Corinthians 1 4-9 um where Paul is speaking and he talks about just in the end there it says God is faithful who has called you into fellowship with his son Jesus Christ the Lord. So that kind of started me down the path of what what Jesus did or or what how he in influenced us, but just the gift of recognizing what that is. And so that's
00:04:11
where I started with the kind of the biblical foundation of the lamb of God and how John said it and and really what it meant by okay, starting from Genesis, right? starting from the beginning of the bile and how it's building up to uh you you know Jesus right so what I the way I started was okay so you know you you heard in um I can't remember my scriptures now I didn't write them down um in Isaiah where he's saying it was um 53:10 where he's telling you that the lamb is coming, that the lamb of God is coming.
00:04:56
And then John in for John in 129 is saying like there he is, this is him. So he's fulfilling that, you know, that part where it's very popular John uh when John says the lamb of God. Um but 600 years earlier when Isaiah talks about it, Isaiah talks about it and then John confirms it and says this is him. So that's kind of how I was building up the the the gift really the gift of what it means that Jesus is the lamb of God. >> Yeah. Yeah. For me, Max, the the the entirety of of scripture from the Exodus
00:05:41
>> out of Egypt and being rescued where where the lamb is first introduced really. Um, I mean there is some of that in in Abraham's story, but uh for God's people really there it's in the Exodus of Egypt and um they're they're called and told to sacrifice a lamb to put the blood of the lamb on the doorpost that then we uh uh God's people call back to that Exodus often. Remember um God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. God rescued you out of Egypt. that is like all
00:06:15
through Old Testament, the prophets, they're speaking to this. Even Isaiah as well um is offering that to his people. Remember remember this is God who got uh rescued you out of Egypt. Um and so the story of the lamb of rescue that then fast forwards us to Jesus when he comes to this place and they call attention. John calls attention to it. Um some of the other early disciples call attention to it. Look, this is the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world. Um, when you put those two on either
00:06:46
end, right, the rescue of Exodus and the lamb's blood on the doorpost. Um, that is the final kind of sign that uh ushers this leaving and rescue out of slavery in Egypt too. Jesus and that rescue um or what it will be is a rescue, his shed blood for the world, right? God's people here out of slavery in Egypt. >> Jesus sin that from his sacrifice on the cross uh will be for the whole world. Uh and I just I in the moment even on Sunday I'm sitting in a place or standing in a place of overwhelm,
00:07:26
right? That >> you've got this story in Exodus that then they're calling attention to here in John. Hey, here's the lamb of God who will take away the sin of the world. because it does require a sacrifice, right? >> And it hasn't happened yet though when they're calling attention to it in John and just like like they're even calling attention to something that h won't happen yet. I mean, it's not >> it's not the next day. It's a few years
00:07:52
from that point, right? And they're like, "Here's the one who will rescue us um and for and offer a salvation, a covering of our sin that the lamb once hold held annually, right? every every year they'd go back to the temple, offer a lamb, sacrifice it, and that would be the atonement atonement for our sins, the covering. Um, and here they're calling attention to this in Jesus, the person of Jesus, as the lamb of God, the one who will Yeah. the salvation for our sins, one who will rescue us.
00:08:25
>> Yeah. Yep. Exodus 29 is what I I had in there be, you know, they said you're to offer, you know, two lambs a day, right? It was two lambs a day. M >> and um you know I did I talked about the blood on the door and how you know from a from a a sacrificial part of it what that meant and then the significance of okay what God did in his plan by sacrificing Jesus made it possible for us to really sustain this uh gift really. >> Yeah. >> All of this always reminds me, and I
00:09:11
know I think I I think we say this on here all the time, but um for me, even hearing you guys talk that out is like a reminder of the character of God. Because essentially what that feels like is that what's offered in Exodus and throughout the biblical narrative is that is God's like, "That's that's better, but it's not good enough." Um, we're we're getting uh, you know, the the fall happens in Genesis 3. Sin enters the world. There's brokenness, and it's like the rest of the story.
00:09:40
God's putting things back together. And in each of these things, like blood on the door and the lambs, and you're going to do all of this, and um, in this, I am going to save you. I'm going to call you my people. I'm going to choose you. I'm going to, you know, draw you out. And then my presence is going to rest on you. I'm going to give you these laws so that you can be a people where my presence can exist. But even that there's a there's a separation in that for the people. So even in the annual uh
00:10:04
you know sacrifice and and all of those things um God's presence is among them but not within them. Um and there isn't the the relational piece. But then we fast forward to Jesus and John calls out like this is the lamb who not only um do we no longer have to go through these rituals and and handle these sacrifices and the lamb and all of that. Not only that, but what Jesus what the sacrifice of Jesus ushers in is the uh presence of God here with me within me. Um in in a way that for the Israelites that wasn't
00:10:38
that wasn't the thing. And so um it just it it like Devon I think you just said like you you find yourself in awe and it is like >> are you that good God? like >> um that you're going to offer uh not just a way like okay we're we we have a hard time holding up this covenant. We can't end up hold up our end of the the covenant deal. So God's like I'll handle that, but not just will I handle that. I'll handle that and then I I will shower my abundant presence upon you um
00:11:08
in a way that wasn't that they they didn't have. >> Yeah. Well, and the also the waiting too, right? Right. So, as we talk about the narrative of scripture, but this rescue um out of Egypt uh and the sacrifice of the lamb and the and the blood on the doorposts that um they it didn't I mean the rescue came and they were able to get out that day. Um and they're not sure like they're heading to the promised land. That's the that's the idea. Um but because of their unbelief
00:11:39
um and disobedience, they end up wandering the desert for 40 years. So their rescue out of slavery ends up being wander wandering in a desert for 40 years for a whole generation to pass away before they finally can enter in. And and then we even come to Isaiah while they're in exile. Here's the promise of the suffering servant or the promise of the servant that that God will bring um and and to care for you, to shepherd you, all the things that we read in Isaiah about the servant that then um we don't even get to that part
00:12:11
or the the prophetic word until we we see it called out here in John by by John the Baptist and by his disciples. That's like there's been 700 years or four depending on where you're starting that clock, 400 years. But like this is a long time of are we are we going to get rescued? Is there going to be uh a you know a covering or atonement? And so even when even when he John calls this out of uh you know look um the lamb of God. I I have to imagine like they've been waiting a really long
00:12:51
time to call this out and then hear >> like how how is it not just the like clamoring of what what did you just say? >> That's that's like a weighty statement. What what did you just say? >> Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. So then I go back to the like Psalm 40 and the David's words of like I waited patiently for the Lord and he heard my cry. how how make how often are they are they singing, reciting, praying Psalm 40 uh over and over again because they are waiting for a really long time and that
00:13:35
um you know they're just not sitting twiddling their thumbs but like I talked about waiting is is not passive but they're there's a formation that's taking place if they'll if they'll allow it right if they'll be trust God to form them. Uh, but that's a long time. And so then when John calls this out, I What did you just say? >> And how I don't know. So, I guess then I go to like um the ways that Jesus did and didn't match the expectation because in that waiting um
00:14:14
different ideas are are of what this is going to look like, right? And that's what we see walked out in Jesus's story. Um where people are like some are some get it and they're like yes, this is this is a Messiah we've been waiting for and some are like this couldn't this can't be. And so in your you know in your question like what did you just say? I wonder how many of of those people um yeah some are like did you just say well let me see I want to come and see right and I know
00:14:39
you talked about that like yes let me come and see and and then some of them are like this can't be because it doesn't >> doesn't fit the the narrative I've believed I've bought into I've told myself whatever um the expectation I had um >> well that's where like is who's this coming from right John the Baptist crazy this crazy guy living out in the in the wilderness >> wear wearing um what camel fur and uh eating locust like >> right >> this guy's off his rocker
00:15:06
>> right >> that's a profound statement he's making >> I don't really know if I don't think he knows what he's talking about >> right >> but then I also wonder like how often for us are we in that waiting I've create and first of all I've never had to wait 700 years in my life for anything so there's that but in the waiting spaces >> what >> shows >> it's rude um in the waiting spaces where look Matt you made Max uncomfortable
00:15:35
doesn't um but in those waiting places where have I created an expectation or a narrative that might not look like God's and so then I where are the places that maybe I am like what did you just say what what's happening now I'm missing I missed it because um in the waiting I created my own kind of expectation or whatever um and waiting is such an echo right now even Max on Tuesday right we were in our board meeting and this idea of like uh what waiting looks like? And so I'm looking at your notes here,
00:16:06
Devon, and I'm like, "Oh, well, that's that's an echo um and this like uh what yeah, what does it look like in the waiting to sit in the waiting? And are we um are we calling out are we leaning into the presence?" And even Devon in prayer this morning, we were we were calling out the like um Moses's recognition of like God, I'd rather wait in the wilderness if that's where you're at than go into the promised land without you. Um and I don't I don't know. I love that story. And also I
00:16:37
recognize in myself I don't know if I would always like I'm not sure I'm always in that space like >> um >> Yeah. You're like I could see it. I can almost touch it. >> Yeah. Like it's probably really great. Why don't you just go there too, God? >> God, I got I got a great plan. >> Why wouldn't you also want to be there, Lord? >> Yeah. But that's to the the even the call out like it's in his presence. That's that's the blessing,
00:17:07
>> right? >> That's the blessing. >> And that's what Jesus is the lamb of God and epist. >> That's right. I was just going to go there. That's just the God with us. what it is. >> Yeah. >> Presence of Jesus with us. >> Yeah. >> That'll that'll preach. >> Yeah. >> So, as we are kind of wrapping this up then um what's landing? What's still sticking? What's God still saying? Um or inviting you? How's he inviting you to
00:17:39
respond? Um >> right. So, Chyros, right? Do we do kind of a >> Yep. So, so for me, one of the things was when I was reading that and where John says Jesus takes away the sin of the world and then in first John he says Jesus takes away the sins of the world he says plural but it just got me I don't know what it got me thinking of was you know when you before when I read that Jesus takes away the sin of the world uh it's kind of one big lump of sin right Jesus takes away all the badness Right. But
00:18:14
the reality kind of like what we were just saying here. No, no, he's taking away my sin. >> Right. He's taking away my sin, >> it made it way more kind of whoa, right? When I when when you think of it when I was thinking of it as the sin of the world is just like kind of a broad term, but that's not it. You know, he did this for, you know, he took away my s my sins. Uh I took it much more personal. It just take gave me another twist on it for sure. >> Yeah. Yeah. And even what came to mind for me
00:18:48
too on Sunday was like >> um actually uh God sees me without sin because of Christ and his righteousness that covers me. Right? So actually what God sees >> is the covering of Jesus Christ as righteousness over me and he sees me without sin. Mhm. >> Not that I don't sin or I'm strongly sin, but covered by Christ and through Christ we are justified, right? Righteous, his righteousness that clothe us, >> that's the overwhelming peace for me that God would see me without sin
00:19:21
because boy, how many times I struggled to even see myself without sin, >> right? >> Oh, >> yeah. >> Really? I mean, really. Because it could be uh as this and this really happened, right? was I was doing I can't I think I I smashed my finger and I said a bad word and then just from a timing standpoint uh somebody's talking to me and I went oh yeah I'm going to preach on Sunday oh shoot oh dang then the imperfection starts and it's like I can't believe this right I
00:20:04
can't believe that I can't do better. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. when as you're talking Max that the other thing that's coming to mind is like okay so Jesus Jesus comes to take away the sins of the world my sins like you're calling out but not and I I don't um not simply because he wants to remove sin from the world but because in doing that the restoration of relationship and that that's the end piece not like okay let me take this big lump of sin and get the sin out of the world and then people
00:20:39
can you know whatever but like I desire to be a God that dwells with his people and that's why that's actually how I created you and why I created you. So we have to get this sin out of here to restore that relationship and that in that way that is the like that's >> well then it becomes identity right now now we we start seeing ourselves the way God see us sees us and that's the piece of like I want to God's like I want to be with you and I can't be with you in the midst of this sin and so Jesus
00:21:08
Christ the lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world and covers you with his righteousness now if we see ourselves in that kind of identity clothed clothed in righteousness by Christ. Oh, this is how God sees me. Oh, this is how God is with me through Christ. That's the place where I stand in that like in awe of >> oh my gosh, God, you are holding up both ends of this covenant and I simply get to receive >> and be and the blessing, >> right? And that's kind of where we're
00:21:38
headed in a in a couple weeks even. >> So, >> that's so good. Okay, I'm gonna go I I'm gonna go with my Pyres. Um, you can go last, Ray. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. Ladies last. Okay, >> we'll save the best for last is what you meant to say. >> It is what I meant to say. Um, this one's a new one coming out of Sunday, but as we were talking as a staff, the the word there of come and see or later on uh to Phillip. Yeah. 43 uh the follow me.
00:22:16
It's both an invitation and a command. Um, and so as we're diving in as a staff and going a little deeper into this statement that g or these these uh words that Jesus are saying come, right, come and see or follow me that that they're both um invitation and command that uh if we see them as invitation, it can be it can land too soft or if we see it as a command, it can land as too harsh. But because it's held in the tension of both an invitation and a command and from from Jesus like here it's both of it. I
00:22:56
I I welcome you. Come and see. I invite you also come after me. Follow me. That piece of that is a command that he's that both the invitation and the command. And and so I'm still the chyros of like what what more is there God that I I've really I guess only ever heard it as an invitation not necessarily a command but if the sense of the the words that Jesus is using as he's talking to these um new new disciples who will follow him for three years on his ministry journeys and see all these things and it's it
00:23:32
actually holds both and because it's Jesus who's offering it >> it actually lands the way it ought to and not too soft and not too harsh, but both. >> Yeah, it's good. Uh for me, I cannot get past the waiting um piece because uh it's such a strong echo. And it's interesting because it's coming. It's it's sitting again tonight even in this moment. Um, like in in full transparency as I pulled your notes up here and I saw Devon, you have written out um uh that
00:24:12
we're formed by waiting and trust. Waiting shapes us when we trust God's faithfulness. And you have a bullet point that says waiting is not passive or inactive. It's allowing trust to be formed. Um, for the last two weeks, uh, Jamie, who's been on the podcast with us before, but her and I have been having this conversation like I think God's saying something in waiting, something about waiting and uh, that waiting actually there's work to be done in the waiting. And we've been talking about
00:24:34
Joshua 4 and the the priests are standing in the middle of the river as God's parted the the waters and they're holding up the ark of the covenant and they're just waiting for all of these things that are happening. And uh then like I called out, we talked about it in our board meeting on Tuesday and last night at youth group, waiting came up um as we were doing Chyros around the circle for with our teens. And uh so I opened these notes and that I see that and I even like uh here's a
00:24:59
transparency. I even texted Jamie just now while we were recording and I was like, "Shut up. What is happening right now?" Um because there's something that God is saying really loudly. Um, and I think even as I called out maybe a minute ago, um, that there's work to be done in the waiting, but also in the waiting, um, it's this drawing near and this presence of God, this God with us piece like that maybe sometimes, um, as followers of Jesus, are we trying to operate as if he's not here with us? And
00:25:30
so trying to get the work done, trying to do the work and be about the business. Um, and the reminder of like, hey, you're trying to work yourself into the promised land or cross that river um, before that space is ready. But if I'm here in the middle, are you waiting here? If I'm here in the wilderness, are you waiting there? Um, and and being about the work that I'm I'm about and that I'm doing right here. And so, um, there I I think right now it's the like again like practice the presence where
00:25:56
I'm at. Will you be there? Will you just be there? >> That's the blessing. >> That's the blessing. Yeah. >> Good. Good. So many echoes, so many um reminders of God's goodness. Fantastic. >> Well, guys, thanks for listening in. Um Max, thanks for joining us and being our extra special guest. >> That's right. >> That's good. >> Thanks for the opportunity. Yeah, guys, we hope and pray that you too are having conversations that go beyond Sunday.
00:26:29
That as we dive into the word and um wrestle with what we're hearing from God, that it's actually stirring even um shared echoes of of God's um invitation, God's commands, God's presence, and his goodness in um in your life as well. And so um until next time, have a blessed week.
