Beyond Sunday: Faithful God in the face of injustice

Catch up: this week’s Sunday morning message.

We live in a world where injustice, brokenness, and division exist. We can choose to be overwhelmed or apathetic or we can trust God for what He says and step out in faith. Kingdom service looks like faithfully seeking justice, mercy, and reconciliation regardless of the depth of brokenness around us.

Catch up: this week’s Sunday morning message.

• Transcript

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  [Music] Hey guys, welcome to Beyond Sunday podcast where we desire to take the conversation deeper. And uh on this one's a special one. We got some guests with us and um uh Shrea and I were at PNA Connect, our gathering of churches from across the Pacific Northwest uh for the Church of God. And so uh Josh brought the word at C3 and Max brought the word at Nextep. and so grateful to have you guys on uh and sharing this conversation. How are you doing today? Awesome. Excellent. Good. Good. All right. Before we dive into the

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  conversation, take a look at this video. [Music] [Music] All right, guys. As we dive into this conversation and beyond Sunday, uh what let's let's share first sort of the big idea and the text that um you were landing on. I know uh maybe it was uh for one or both of you, all of them or just a few of them, but what was the the big idea for this week? Go for it, Max. Um okay. Well, so for me, I did I went through what I do is I read through the scriptures and then when something if something jumps out at me and certainly

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  um Habach struck um a chord with me as I was reading through it and and really what it you know with the kind of the theme of being faithful in the in the face of injustice. I think there's a lot of uh anger. I think these days there's a lot of hardened hearts, I'll say. And you know, I think Habachok was a was a great um you know, he was not a lesserk known prophet probably, but the fact that he lamented uh the God so often, so much and so kind of honestly um kind of really uh is where I got my

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  uh kind of my uh sermon from was just the whole um you know, God knows So, you know, I still think that sometimes I can, you know, when I pray, it's a little churchy. It can be a little churchy sometimes, but when I'm really angry or uh if something really upsets me to take that honesty to God because he's going to be surprised by it, he's not going to say, "Oh, boy, that's a surprise." Um, so that's kind of where I I let my uh sermon kind of go through was was

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  using, you know, the lament, right? The lament. I did talk about, you know, laments are interesting, right? Because, you know, there's there a kind of a a sadness, right? A plea. And I don't know that many people or or I have never really tried to write one during that time that I'm in the most pain. It's always afterwards. So that of being honest um with that kind of you know pain is what was kind of guiding me say. Yeah. Yeah. How about for you Josh? Um, it was powerful. By the way, I haven't

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  watched it on the way back from Spokane, but the whole service was powerful. In fact, there were so many echoes of what God was speaking in different ways, whether it was at PNA Connect or church on Sunday when we were in Spokane, but um, yeah. Uh, what what was uh, this I know there was all the scriptures tying together, but really you you were like, "And what's the thread throughout all of these?" Well, I'm gonna say just start off What's interesting is is it really ties

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  in with what's going on in the world it seems like right now. I think everyone's just kind of in this state of just like what is going on and and what's happening and what do we how do we handle you know just this constant bombardment of information that just seems too heavy for our souls to handle. And I I remember when I first saw the scripture verses on there and and I I think I said something to this to the church. She was like, "You see lamentations starting out and these are

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  these are some of your scripture verses that you're going to use." And I'm going, "Okay, this this this is going to hit a little differently there and cuz you know sometimes you want to feel like a little more upbeat and stuff, but I learned a lot from this and just that this is such a key part of of Israel, but yet it gives us such a big picture as far as like how we are and and the difference between complaining and lamenting." You know, I think that God wants that honesty from us where we

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  really can say, "Listen, I don't understand this, God." And being truthful for him, not putting on a fake phony face, but really just sitting there going, "This hurts. This is painful. I don't I don't know how to handle this. And so, how do you want me to walk through this?" And then through the rest of the scriptures, going through that moment of going, "Okay, it's okay for me to be honest with him." But then getting to that point of going, "This injustice is hurt so much, but

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  he's going, listen, I want you to wait in that." and how how you wait is is is important. And a lot of times we think waiting as being wasteful, but it's not. If we worship in our weight, it really leads us to a point of where we need to go to. And that that kind of led into that last portion that I talked about, which is the way. And so this whole thing was just a a picture of how God wants to take us during this time, I think, culturally, um, churchwide, just all these different areas that we're feeling these tensions.

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  and he's saying, "Listen, it's okay to not understand what I'm doing, but in this, I have a there's some things I want you to do, too." And all the way to the point of um and I could talk about this. It was interesting the day that you sent that to me was I I'll just kind of give the the the It's like God just kind of goes, "Okay, this is what we're going to do." that morning I I uh my devotional was the about the fig tree and I talked about that at the end of the service and I and

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  I didn't apply that till the very end that also that day someone came to me and I've literally tried to stay away from the news that's just kind of been my thing lately in fact everyone comes to me like have you heard about this have you heard about that and I get a lot of people in my door in my office saying different things I had someone stop by and and uh the first thing that I heard that morning was do you know about the the Ukrainian girl that got shot and so I'm oh man That's terrible.

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  I didn't know anything about it. Right after that, that was the whole Charlie Kirk thing that happened too, right after that. And then all a sudden, I get your email and stuff and I'm going, "Okay, what's going on today? Today was just this crazy thing." But that's why that message for the church because we don't have answers for all the things that are going on. We just don't. It's only through him. And so I think people feel that feeling of lament when they're

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  watching the world and they don't understand that. And so that's why this is really time time, what's the word I'm looking for here? Good timing on this um as we kind of walk through this just because of I think what general feeling people are at right now. Yeah, for sure. Well, and I think um even hearing both of you, first of all, one of the things I just want to call this out because we were talking about this. It's cool the way um even using the Revised Common Lectionary now as a track like both of

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  our churches have been doing for a while. It's cool how much it still leaves room for the spirit to speak and move in different ways. And we noticed this, I think, when when we preach um when we're preaching the same message at our respective churches, maybe there's a fair amount of similarities, but we've noticed the last time the two of you preached as well, um the difference between where like Josh, you tend to take like here's all the scriptures and how they tie together and Max, how you

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  tend to like God, what's the one that's sitting? And so I just think it's a cool way to like these conversations are a cool way to see how uh the spirit can speak through uh speak differently to each of us through the same scripture. So, um it was cool just to hear you guys talking about that. And even as you're talking, I'm thinking like the way that those two things sit together in in like it does matter how we wait, but also if we're not honest, like Max, like you're

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  talking about, um I wonder how often God's like ready to work and move in our hearts if we would just be really honest with what we're feeling and what we're offering up and and when we try to um I don't know, like shield that from him, he's like, "There's more I want to do. There's more I have for you in the waiting um if you be honest." And so even as you guys were talking, it's like this that something about both of those perspectives together um that's landing

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  for me. Yeah. Yeah. And all all weekend we were in Isaiah 40 and the end of Isaiah 40 is uh those who wait on the Lord will renew their strength, right? And then it goes into this soaring on wings like eagles uh running and not growing weary, walking and not fainting. Uh but this those that wait on the Lord or hope in the Lord in other translations um uh will their strength will be renewed by a God who uh never grows tired, never is weary. Uh and so again, more of those echoes of what God was uh I think

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  leading us into or walking us through in this season of time. Josh, I think you hit it on the the head there of um these these likely not an accident, right? not coincidence that here we we find ourselves in our culture and community walking through what we're walking through and struggling on how do we what do I feel about this? How do we walk this out? and what is it that God you're calling me to to faithfully uh steward or live or or speak into and to know what that looks like to then

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  come and part into these verses and understand like this isn't anything new right in the world that that we've seen but it is something for us new now maybe to faithfully um uh uh hear from God and respond. Yeah. Well, and even in Isaiah 40, the other part of that is that the Israelites are being honest with God. They're crying out like why why have you forgotten us? Like why are you not where are you God in this? And so even that honesty thing where then then it allows space for God to remind them like do you

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  not remember who I am? And that that's what we were sitting in all weekend was this like do like like you're saying Josh and like even Max you talked about there's a there's plenty in our world for us to have honest like heart cry laments about. Um and when we do that there's this opportunity for God like don't forget who I am. Don't forget what I've done. Um, yeah. Well, this is this is something that's been sitting in my heart, too, is as we've been going through this, and this

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  is even prior to me even doing the the message on there is like we people are searching for answers in this in really all the wrong places and like the this thought I have, I almost want to do a t-shirt for it. It's like your algorithm is showing because all these you know it really it's like all these people everyone has this opinion or whatever of how the world is and and you know and some people have different perspectives and stuff like that and I'm going okay at some point in time we we have to go

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  to truth we have to understand what okay about what Jesus wants for us not so and so whatever type of thing and I think it's just creating this just this confusion that's out there. And I think that's the heaviness on there because we're searching for answers in the wrong places and then when we un when all of a sudden those don't pan out or they don't hold true or they don't land in our hearts that way or they don't bring a sense of peace or they don't give any

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  answers to that then we're scrambling trying to find something else when it just goes back to I mean that's the power of scripture is like okay here's this horrific event that happened where King Nebuchadnezzar just wipes him out and I I mean it and I the One of the verses in Psalms where where when I've made the two connection on there where they're basically mocking them, I'm like, "Okay, that's the low of the lows." When your enemy is sitting there going, "Oh, play us a song. You know,

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  play one of your old songs." And sometimes we we feel that way. Like, does nobody feel what I'm feeling right now? You know, I feel like the world is just doing this thing. But God's saying, listen, I this is like you guys said, this has already been happening. This is not anything new. it all a sudden God didn't say, "Wow, in 2025 this is really going to get crazy and I don't know what's going to happen now." It's like I mean these are horrific things that we

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  have no idea about and and uh anyway just that really struck home and it also gives a sense of peace too going okay he did it then he's going to take care of us now we can just trust him. Yeah. Yeah. Which makes me think Max, we talk about this a lot, but the narrow road that Jesus calls out is that like in all the craziness there, everything is all over. Um this is the true constant. This is like the one thing. And so, um, there's something there is a level of like when when we find ourselves, I don't know,

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  Max, we've talked about this, but when we find ourselves in a space where it's like everybody looks crazy to me, like every it doesn't matter what side of anything anybody's on, like maybe that's actually okay because maybe that means that my eyes are just like on Jesus and this narrow this narrow road kind of a thing. Yeah, certainly. I think it's it's kind of made me think about, you know, when we're not going to see God's picture, right? this this bigger picture that we

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  have but we have to understand the importance of of how we fit in how we are a piece to that puzzle and that is what it has kind of calmed me in a way that right if I just forget about the worldly I want to show you I'm right and you're wrong and just back and go okay you know this is a time of craziness what we do need now is is you know to show love right to show his how he's uh kind of guiding each one of us through these these times. Yeah. Yeah. It's good. Well, and again, I am so blessed and

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  grateful for the two of you um and and and just opening yourself up and and allowing God to speak um through you and and I was talking uh to Bobby Josh earlier this week and just the just the spirit in the room, right? there's just a sense of God was moving and and speaking and speaking through you and through the whole part of the of the time together in our in our worship gathering that uh there is a sense of of in all of this he's he's preparing each of us and collectively as well of our

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  church families to step faithfully into what he's calling us how he's calling us to to um yeah to live into this into this world that yeah as you said uh Max is like It's all crazy. It's all crazy. But uh but he's called us to to walk in in his way. So I I appreciate both of your uh willingness and the the spirit flowing in and through you. Uh it's very powerful. Yeah, I feel it. It's good. Feel it. Yeah. Yeah. I got you. What's funny is you know the whole revised common lecture

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  because I've never done that before and so that feels really strange at first and I was like okay how does this work cuz come on you know and you you brought it up earlier too it is amazing how it is timely and that also points out to that God's word is so on point no matter where we're at and and his word's going to come through however he wants it to get work but and that was that was that reminder for that day because I'm like I'm looking at all these verses I'm going, okay, how do I? And then all a

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  sudden those events happen the day and I'm going, okay, we're talking about injustice. We're talking about when the world's kind of doesn't seem fair and and it's like, okay, once again, God, you just you proved it to me because, you know, I mean, I can be like, you know, cuz I I always when I preached before, it was always a different style how I did things. And so it it's been good for me on that part, too, because it's it's kind of shifted how I look at things and stretched me as well.

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  Yeah. Go ahead. Well, and we say all the we've said this all the time. Um, like we shouldn't be surprised anymore. We don't want to like we we do want to stand like in awe of of God and how he works, but we shouldn't be surprised anymore how often cuz I mean these this this uh series we put together a year ago um out of what our teaching teams had prayed through and and prayed over. And so every time that it's something hits like that where it's like gosh this is so relevant for right now like wow

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  look at God again probably shouldn't be surprised at this point and yet I never want to stop I never want to stop being amazed at the way God works and the way that he speaks. Um yeah especially through his word. Yeah. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. Well, as we uh bring this to a close, let's share Cairo. So what is it that you're hearing from God and how is he inviting you to respond? Um I'll go first. Um, and and is that okay? So, I mean, you always do, but it's okay. Go ahead.

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  Oh, no. Fine. That's fine. Ladies first. No, no, go ahead. But, um, the the this the way you laid it out, Josh, and and and even what I sense being invited into was this the faith uh like it was um you know, the faith is re is doesn't grow in the in the trial, but it's revealed in it. And um I guess in this last month I've I've felt the weightiness the uh you know of of our of of our church of our culture. I just I've felt it. And in that I've been reflecting uh since Sunday of okay Lord

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  did that reveal faith or did that expose uh where you may not I may not be relying on you where I may not be leaning on you or trusting you. And um and so that was a one I've been sitting with since since Sunday. And it's a it was a good word. Uh and one where it helped me to reflect especially in this last month. Uh did did that um hardship I don't know. Did the did the weight of of what since we were all walking through did it expose or did it reveal faith or did it expose areas that uh faith needs to grow? I

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  need to trust God in those areas. Yeah. Yeah. Max, what about for you? What's still what's best? Well, what is you know, I think um it's kind of tapped into my you know, as I try to figure out what my next step is, I'll say. Um th this one has um you know, again sharpened me to um I I have to deliberately spend more time being honest. I'm not I don't I don't think it's to me it's too outward. It feels too outward to me where I'm not allowing God to really come inside and and I

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  worry about stuff that I shouldn't worry about and things like that. So, this one has um has sharpened my focus, I would say, as in I know this feels right. You know, Shay, we say it sometimes that all this stuff that lines up that feels very hard It feels right. It feels like, you know, I'm moving correctly. I just um I I I just get, you know, stalled, I'll say. Yeah. Um important. Yeah. Yeah. What about for you, Josh? Um, I think the big thing is I think a lot of times when we go through those big moments in life, I

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  it feel we feel like we're at the weakest. Um, and and we don't feel like we're capable. And and what was interesting that that that whole section about the mustard seed and the servants and all that kind of stuff, which is a really kind of strange passage on that part there, but um the kind of the thing that I pulled from that was the fact that God's not waiting it for us to have a big faith. He just wants us to use the faith that we have. Yeah. And that that really what we have in

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  that moment is enough because it's not ours, it's his. and that we can trust in a God who is good and that he will walk us through those moments. And I know for me waiting is always difficult. You know, it's like I want to try to control. I want to try to figure it out. I want to come up with the plan, you know, and some of that works really well on the business side of things, but when it comes to faith, every the whole kingdom's upside down when it comes all that stuff. So then you're sitting there

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  going, "Okay, God, I I have to sit here and wait in this." But um a lot of times we can feel like we are wasteful in that. And so that's one of the things that too is just like going, okay, one, I have the faith that I need, but two, what am I doing with that at in that moment? And and can I turn that waiting into one of those powerful moments? And that fig tree illustration to me just seems so powerful where all of a sudden Jesus is approaching going, I saw you under the fig tree. And I want Jesus to say that

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  about me. I want him to look at me and say, I saw you under the fig tree. all these things happen in your life and it may be years and years and years but eventually him saying I saw you in the fig tree and and there's those little kisses from God just saying I I saw you that's that to me is a um one of the most powerful things I pulled from it yeah that's good uh I think for me it's interesting again the way that God works because knowing what you guys were going to be talking about at least generally and the

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  scriptures you were going to be in and then knowing what we had uh been preparing and what we were sitting in for connect with Isaiah 40 and all of that. Um what I didn't know was what the pastor we were uh hearing on Sunday. I didn't know exactly where he was going and he um kind of like you just said Josh about uh the faith um kind of aspect. He was talking about joy um and hope and how those are not things that we have, they're things that God gives us. Um and this idea of like he he was

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  talking about the Greek in uh for the word joy in one space. um this idea of like trans transcendent gladness and how um like if joy is something I have to manufacture, I'm going to be in trouble, especially in light of everything like you guys are calling out the the injustice in the world and the way that things are around us. Um and so if it's up to me to manufacture or find hope and joy, like I'm going to be in trouble every time. Um but if I trust that that actually comes from God, then then it

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  goes back to this Isaiah 40 and like just remember who I am. And if you'll remember remember who this God is and even Max I think in Habach um one of the one of the spaces there um that's like yeah do you know this God this big big God and it's just calling that out and so um for me that's the reminder like will you just remember who I am this is where your hope comes from this is where your joy comes from I don't have to create it because if I just remember who he is and remember that I'm made in that

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  image um then actually that's enough um so I think that's what's sitting for me Can I add one more thing because I I didn't mention this in the s in the my sermon and it was part of what I had I had just listened to this prior to but I thought it was an opportunity for us. It was a statistic about Gen Z. It said 42% of Gen Z have no hope for the future. That's that's their that's their perspective. I thought, man, we're missing out as a church to if we can show that we are hope in in a lost

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  world. There's an entire generation that's just sitting there ready to be pulled in, you know, to what the truth of the gospel says. And so, um, so this idea of hopelessness and where they were sitting at, it's always been there, but we have to kind of be reminded like who's whose where does our hope lie? Yeah. Well, and then I think that that makes me think Josh of Max what Max was saying even because actually um hope and joy and those kinds of things um those are powerful when they stand in contrast

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  to the injustice and the things if we're not honest and I I wonder how often uh the the big C church gets this wrong because we do we try to make this plastic we we talked about this at Christmas last year this was part of that series of like um plastic emotions or whatever but this idea of like if we're not willing to actually call out like, yeah, the world is a mess and it is broken and because of that, we need we we need a God who is big enough to put the pieces back together and we have

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  hope in a God who is big enough to do that. But if we're not willing to be honest um and call out like, "Yeah, this is how bad it is and this is how big my God is." And so there's hope. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. It's it it it it consumes the the the bigness of God of God, the the hope that he offers, the joy that he pours into us. It consumes and covers up uh almost so you can't recognize when when God is in the in in the work and business of reconciliation in renewing the world that that it just it floods

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  in, right? It consumes the brokenness to make whole. And and that we that's how big God is. That's a good place to end. Yeah. Well, guys, thanks for being with us on this uh episode of Beyond Sunday. Uh guys, thanks for bringing the word at our uh churches and to our people um and to our church families. Uh there's a blessing. And so we hope and pray that you guys as you're listening to this uh and you're having conversations that go beyond Sunday, that's stirring in your

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  heart and soul of what God is is doing in and through and what he's calling us into in the days and weeks ahead. So have a great week. [Music]