Beyond Sunday: Empowered by the Spirit (Part 2)
Catch up: this week’s Sunday morning message.
The Holy Spirit has been given to us and leads us on this journey, empowering us to walk with Jesus daily.
Catch up: this week’s Sunday morning message.
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Hey guys, welcome to Beyond Sunday, where we desire to take the conversation deeper in Beyond Sunday. And uh on this episode, we're joined with the right Reverend Michael Melman. Um yep. Uh all all he's missing is the the the priest caller. Uh but also um joined next to me with Shay. So welcome, Mike. How you doing? Doing great. Greetings from Wachi, Washington. Yes, the center of Washington. Is it dry there? It's very dry and it will be once again very warm today. That sounds fantastic. It is.
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It's wonderful. We got a dusting of rain. Um, so before we dive into our conversation, take a look at this video. Heat. Heat. All right, welcome back. Uh let's get into this is uh uh preaching Mike brought the word at C3 and Shay at Nextstep. Um but uh Mike, why don't you share with us uh sort of the big idea um in um in this Sunday's message and what God was leading you in. I think if we're talking about enlarging the circle, we have to, you know, define what the circle is, you know, to begin with and
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what's at the core of the circle. And I think, you know, we're we're around this time of Pentecost and and the core of the circle is the Godhead. It's it's three in one. It's God in relationship uh with uh the Holy Spirit, Father, Son, all interacting together and then inviting us into that circle and and then when we come into that circle, that's where I our identity is developed. We see our part ourselves as part of something larger, part of a a mission uh where God has sort of loosed us into this world to do his will uh to
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speak truth to love one another and and to interact with the world in the way that uh uh the son and the spirit interact with the world and see us as a part of that that uh that that circular relationship. Yeah. And and the scripture that um that we you were leading us in was a couple different portions of that scripture, but um was it was John remind us again? We're in John 15:16 and a little bit of 17. I bounced all over the place to be honest with you. Uh but they were basically some some passages about the father, the
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son, um passages about um the sending of the spirit, the counselor. Yeah. Who will guide us in all things. And then I sort of uh dovetailed that with with a few other passages of of scripture. Jesus prayer when he prays that uh that he would be in us and uh that we would be in in in the father son spirit relationship and be one. Uh and then and then kind of uh leading on to when that happens, when we're invited into that relationship, uh the world sees something different and the world will come to know uh as uh
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as as individuals and groups, communities observe Christian people interacting with father-son spirit and then developing father son spirit values and and taking those out into the world. Yeah. Yeah. was a good word. Um, yeah, Shay, where were you? That was a big idea and you were in some of John um we touched John 16 a little bit at the end. Uh, we spent most of the time in the Old Testament um kind of in a different direction um with the kind of a continuation of the week before. So, uh this idea of like what it is to be
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empowered by the spirit. Um, and so, uh, there's a the the narrative in the Old Testament where God is stirring the hearts of the people to rebuild the temple, um, just feels like a real parallel to the season, um, maybe that the big church is in, but, certainly that my congregation is in and that we're walking through. I see that uh, for individuals um, if we talk about like if we're the temple, um, there's there's this uh, for a lot of us this need or this invitation to rebuild, but then also for us as a church. And so,
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um, the thing about that even in the Old Testament is that God's like, "Hey, it's actually my spirit. It's not your power. It's not your might." Um, so if the call to rebuild feels heavy or hard, um, it's actually my spirit that's going to do the work in you. You just have to respond. Um, and so I that that was the tie into John 16 for me where Jesus is like, you're not going to understand all these things, but just trust like trust that my spirit's going to guide and lead you. Um, so that's where we were. That's
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what we did. Yeah. And and Mike, one of the things you I mean you started with was um this uh dual citizenship. Um and and when you said that you were you had dual citizenship, I people in the congregation I heard like, "Oh, oh, I didn't know that." They were trying to guess. They're like, "Oh, we we've known you for a little while. We didn't know that." They're like, "Maybe Canada. Maybe Greenland. Maybe can I tell you I I did a 23 and me recently." Uh and uh I'm not making I'm not making this up.
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Uh, I have both uh Japanese and Sri Lankan in my DNA. I mean, duh. I can see it. There you go. True story. What I got? I'm surprised I actually know Bangladesh. I mean, yeah. Well, I've been there enough. You know, on that but on that front, Devin, you know, the reality is is I think one of the problems we have gotten ourselves in as the church, specifically in America, is we've lost our sense of true citizenship. And the reality is is that too often uh our citizenship in the world be that American or whatever is where we develop
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our priorities where we develop our worldview. Uh I love living in America but there's a lot of things about the values of America both left and right that are distinctly contradictory to the cross of Jesus Christ. And so we need to be developing an identity that's based on this this idea of where we're citizens and we are first and foremost citizens of the kingdom of heaven and that should go that's where our then our identity from that citizenship that identity from our relationship with Jesus uh the spirit speaking into us is
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what uh shapes us so that we can go out in the world and and look like kingdom citizens. That's also what gives us our authority. And so that's funny as you're saying that I'm thinking that's the uh there's a tiein to the word that God had given me because in in Ezra 5 um after so God stirred the heart of the people rebuild they hit opposition so they give up rebuilding comes to a standstill then again uh he calls them to it and they respond and right away um there's this this question of like who said you could
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rebuild this temple and that time their response is uh we are servants of the God of heaven and earth and we are rebuilding this temple and so there's a a certain level of authority. Um, and that was the question that was sitting for me is like, uh, if we believe God's inviting us into rebuilding his kingdom, what's our response going to be? And that comes from a place just exactly what you just said. If I recognize my identity as a citizen of heaven, um, then I can stand with that kind of confidence like, no, I I'm a servant of
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the God of heaven and earth, and I he has called me to rebuild this. Um, and that looks different than, uh, the world looks. Yeah. It looks different than building um empire empire or even um uh even when it's something good like sanctuaries and places for people God's people to gather like it it actually just looks different um when I'm doing it in my own will my own way uh or I'm championing like we're all human beings here on this earth rather than I'm I'm an eternal uh creation of God and actually uh here on
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earth I have a mission he's called me on but my uh Um uh it doesn't end here. It actually just is this is a piece of where I'm at right now. But um there's eternity with the king. There's eternity with God that I have in my um in my in my heart and in my conscience that um I'm not just I'm just not just here as a human being. Well, and that's why I think that that uh that Old Testament story uh reads differently after Pentecost because it's not he's not calling a rebuilding of our church buildings or our physical structures or
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whatever. But if I'm the temple now that can be filled by his spirit, then that's the rebuilding like is he he's calling a rebuilding of his people to carry his glory into the world. And that comes from exactly what you're saying, Mike, that citizenship and knowing like where my identity rests. Yeah. And I I want to I I like this idea. I hadn't thought of it. This idea of authority because I think it it does something else in this conversation. And what it does is uh too often I think our our kingdom
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citizenship in the world puts a tremendous amount of pressure on us uh to fit in uh to go along. We will uh we will align ourselves with organizations and with movements that we know have uh ungodly components because we feel they're better than the alternative. Uh and we also perhaps internally have some fear of speaking out. When we recognize we we're agents that you know the the the language the that scripture uses is ambassadors uh it allows us to that this this idea of authority. We're children of God. We
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are doing God's will. It allows us to sort of stand up to things if we view ourselves that way and speak truth. You know I the number of times I talk to people and they say I need to choose between the the lesser of two evils. And somebody once said, "Well, choosing between the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil." And I think this idea of choosing the lesser of two evils is a false dichotomy. Yeah. I think we need to go out with Holy Spirit eyes with with Jesus colored glasses look out into
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the world and say, "What would Jesus do in this particular circumstance in this particular time with this set of obstacles that I'm facing? How would he respond, react, and then boldly do that as as children, citizens of the kingdom of God? Yeah. Well, I'll preach. Mike, I wonder too in your role um right so you you're is is the role executive director for Serve. I'm an executive director of an organization that provides help uh to lowincome families uh in North Central Washington. and and last year we had about uh 11,000
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different contacts with people that we help. We do a tremendous amount of food and rental assistance in our community. Uh work we we we kind of see oursel as a homelessness prevention organization. Yeah. Yeah. So even in that role um engaging in um uh in the least, the lost and and and the lonely or the lowly, right? that that that's an everyday occurrence in in that in your role and and seeing the and and also seeing the vast uh or the the extent of the need, right? It's it's pretty vast, pretty
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large and and that that this this doesn't happen without partnerships, right? Servoachi doesn't exist without partnerships and people saying, "I'm willing to to to to partner in with with with uh with what the work that's going on." Um and whether to be hands and feet or uh financial resource and backing um but there is a the the level of need is is vast and great. Yeah. Yeah. We're an interesting collection of individuals, churches, uh 20some churches and a lot of businesses that come together uh to
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make this happen. We don't get any government funding. And you know, one of the things I've been saying uh during this particular period where we're seeing government funding cut is what an opportunity for the church to be kingdom people. Yeah. Right. Uh I'm not opposed to government assistance uh government safety nets. Uh never have been. Uh at the same time, I've never viewed it as the government's primary role uh to respond to to poverty. I I actually believe that the church has a role above
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the government uh in that area. And so I've been even in the conversations I have with with uh leaders in our community particularly Christian leaders in our community is this is an opportunity folks during this time where we may see things become more challenging for for like you mentioned the last least lonely isolated is this is a real opportunity for us to kind of step into this uh this relationship and invite them into this relationship with the kingdom of uh with the kingdom of Yeah. But also meet needs along the way.
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So I sort of see us on the front line. Uh, interestingly enough, there's a lot of obstacles to doing this work. And I think some of those obstacles come from a false sense of citizenship and uh so it's it's a lot of work. It's heavy lifting. Yes. Yeah. Well, and and some of those obstacles because because sometimes the ones asking that question of like who said you could rebuild sometimes it's and this is what I said Sunday like sometimes it's us asking that question, right? Like who said you could change my church? Who said you
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could could tear out the pews? Ask Yeah. Right. Play that kind of music. Like it's stupid stuff sometimes, but sometimes it's even bigger like what you're saying, Mike. like uh who said that we were going to meet those needs or or allow those people in here or whatever? Um who said who said you're going to help an undocumented person, right? Yeah. And and so we're the ones sometimes asking that question. Um and there was a uh there's a quote NT Wright actually in a we were watching a conference thing he was at and he said
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something about um when the church is not acting according to uh the way God designed or has called the church when we're not acting in accordance to that um uh the the power the other powers and principalities smile sardonically and say that's okay we won't get any trouble from that one and that uh man that hit me because I just thought like God I never want that to be true of me as a Jesus follower or of my church where uh where the devil's like, "Nah, it's all right. I'm not actually worried about
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that one." Like, I want I want I want the uh the demons to tremble when my feet hit the floor. Right? And that but that's where I think we we find ourselves sometimes is we've just settled for so much less. Um that we're just not even like I don't know, Satan's like I'm not concerned not concerned about that group of people. Um and that again that's the citizenship thing. But isn't it true like Mike, you mentioned the heavy lifting and and this idea of like um if actually I'm in in where God uh has called me as being an ambassador,
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an agent um for God's kingdom to come, um then uh God's opening doors that we may not perceive or see, but if we're in his will, not that it's going to be uh easy easygoing or that we won't have trials, that Jesus actually says um that we will face trials and struggles, But um take heart I've overcome the world. That in that space that we we we press on um uh knowing that uh God's kingdom is coming. That that those he has called us to engage with um and and even the ark of scripture from Jesus from God to
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his people saying look I put you in this place to care for the the orphans, the widows and the foreigners. This is why I put you here. So be about this work. And then that arc even continues in through um to Jesus and his teachings and then on to the uh the disciples that there's something there for us here and now of that if we're going to be kingdom people um that if our uh if our identity is going to be founded in God the father, God the son, and God the holy spirit that he empowers us into these places to
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see his kingdom come to bring light into those dark places. Um, and what a beautiful what a beautiful invitation that can be for us. I uh I was messaging with a friend of mine recently and he was telling me about a time in his life when he was dealing with an injustice uh that had happened. He's a pastor and he was dealing with this injustice and it kind of got me thinking. I think most of us work to understand the will of God. uh and somewhere out there we desire to know what God knows and his plans and
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his will for our communities. Yeah. But he said he there's this interplay between knowing the will of God and knowing the heart of God. And he he said this. He said I won't go into the whole story, but there was a time long ago when I asked God not just to know his heart on an issue, but feel his heart on an issue. I was overcome with the grief, frustration, longing for truth like I had never before or never since felt. It was crushing. I trembled and wept uncontrollably. And you know, for a lot of us as we kind of
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journey out into the world, it's easy to look at at injustice and things going on in the world and go, you know, are and and be angry and frustrated and even be mad at uh at people. And I long to know the will of God. But I think that's a great prayer for us. And I think it gets to this idea of who's in that inner circle. Not just to know the will of God, but to actually feel the heart of God. That's a dangerous prayer, isn't it? Two weeks ago, Mike. Dangerous prayers. Yeah. Yeah. Is it? Yeah. It's a
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dangerous prayer. Feel the heart of God. Because when we feel the heart of God, don't be surprised if you are overwhelmed, if you are um pierced, if you are broken, if you are challenged. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dangerous prayers. Come Holy Spirit and may I feel the heart of the father for this. Yeah. Whatever this is. It's good. Yeah. All right. Well, as we um as we wrap this up, uh let's share some chyros. So, what is uh Chyros is is a moment in time God's getting our attention. So, in regards to this last
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Sunday and what God is continuing to speak, uh what uh what's what's God saying to you and how is he inviting you to respond? Um I I I'll start and let the two of you think about it. Oh, nice. Thank you. I'm I'm a kind of a giver in that way. Gross. Okay. Um mine is the um the well what even what you said Mike in the beginning and really that carried through but this idea of uh dual citizenship that I am a citizen of heaven but I also am here on earth and and as a ambassador as an agent um the the I don't want I know tension is not
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the word but there's a sense of uh am I living into the reality that I am a kingdom of heaven heaven while also living here on earth for the time and the space and the place that God has placed me. And then what does that look like to be um to to carry the authority and power uh that God has offered? What does it look like to be like you even said here in this in this conversation about God the Father, God the Son, and Holy Spirit and this this um interplay among uh among uh you know the the the
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trinity among the persons of of God that um there there is something that he's even inviting me to in here and do I do I walk with that kind of uh understanding reality knowing that the places he puts me here and now it's by no accident. Am I there? And and and and so I'm even wrestling with some of the things that are we're navigating in our in our community uh and in and currently what's going on with uh with a church that uses our our space on Sunday and um you know what what they're struggling through and and how that you
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know there are people in their church that are fearful um of what's going on in in in uh in our in our in our state and in our country. And uh my heart breaks. I mean I went down there and talked with the pastor. heart breaks and I don't really I don't necessarily know what's the f the next right step but I'm just like Lord lead me lead me because I think even just what you said like have feeling God's heart in that particular instance in that moment I just was I was like I'm broken for what you're having
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to navigate. I don't have to think about that but you do. And and um and so what what what is my place in that? Where is God inviting me in in in that? And so really I just I just went down and and gave him a hug and it's like I'm praying for you and I want you to know that you're loved and um and I don't know what to do uh going forward, but I do trust that God will lead us in ways that um that bring the kingdom come that bring the kingdom into this space that where brokenness and um disunityity and
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division exist, God's kingdom is to restore that, to bring wholeness, to bring unity, um to mend the brokenness, and he's in that space maybe inviting me to be a part of that be ambassador to bring that in. So that's some of the chyros that God even through Sunday and prior to Sunday but even moving forward of like there's there's something here for me to uh to step into. I don't fully know what that is but um it it is something maybe it's standing in the gap. I I don't know but um you know trusting that God will lead. Yeah. Well,
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that uh I wonder part of me wonders this idea of like feeling God's heart like if that's what it is. Uh when when God talks about stirring the hearts of the people if that's where it starts because that makes me think of um this is going to sound stupid but like I feel like a year ago we kind of started to learn and understand what it is to lament. And that's not something we talk about a lot in at least in my growing up like in the church we didn't talk about lamenting but um in the practices we've been doing
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um when we walked through the prayer practice a year ago I remember that being for for a lot of us in that group like a oh like this is actually okay like and this idea of agreeing with God about the brokenness in the world um and and then speaking that out like God you my heart is broken the way your heart's broken like this sucks and there's brokenness here. And I wonder if that um we actually have to start from that place and then let and then trust that his spirit's going to call us into whatever kind of action he wants us to
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do out of that. But I don't know if we spend a lot of time um sitting in lament in that way. Yeah. I guess that's kind of where I'm at. I'm sitting in lament because I see the brokenness and it and it hurts because I it's there are people that are in in the midst of that and and it's systemic brokenness but also brokenness within individuals but the systemic brokenness is just like gosh this god this is so big. Well, it's like recognizing the the disparity between empire and kingdom and like that. Yeah.
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Yeah. I would have thought uh driving home u on on Sunday from Centroia back to Wache and and I was behind a car and you know I just preached on these two kingdoms and I realized maybe there's a third kingdom involved here. There's the kingdom of there's the kingdom of um God, there's the kingdom of this world and then there's the kingdom of me. And I was behind a car and these aren't uncommon in our in 2025. I saw the Gadson flag label on their car. I don't know if you know what the Gadson flag
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is. It's the yellow flag with the snake that says, "Don't tread on me." Uh, you know, and it's it's been used at various times in our nation's history. And this really isn't a commentary on the Gadson flag. But I was thinking about that message, don't tread on me. And then I was placing it up against um Jesus call when he said if anyone w must wants to come after me he must deny himself take up his cross and follow me. And I thought to myself boy that is don't tread on me and then take up your cross are very different messages. Yeah.
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And I I wonder how often I am in the world of do not tread on me. Yeah. Yeah. where I really need to be taking up my cross because Jesus at that moment when he took up the cross was completely uh abdicating any sense of self and was giving love lavishly on every onto everyone including probably some people I have disagreements with. Yeah. Well, nothing about the way Jesus lived said don't tread on me. In fact, it was like here I am. Yeah. Yeah, interesting world we live in. But I've always believed
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if you look at the sort of the the scope of human history, the trajectory, the up and downs, the eb and flow of, you know, thousands of years of of human history, the church has always functioned best in the margins. And when we get into power, when we become part of the kingdom, where we take leadership or power maybe is a better world word in the kingdom or seek power uh in the kingdom, that's historically when we've gotten off the rails. But when we've lived on the margin and lived in u um live counter to the
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prevailing power structures of the day, we've done our best work. And that's the, by the way, that was the Acts chapter 2 church, right? Right. I mean, they were just, they were weird. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that was the prayer leading into Sunday was um Lord, tear down strongholds that we've put up. Um yes, we know where there is a battle, a spiritual battle. um uh one that's raging within us, but also one that is uh existing outside of us that uh um you know that coming into Sunday, the prayer was Lord, if there are strongholds we've
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put up, tear them down, remove them, blow the doors off of of this so that your spirit can move freely um in some of the ways like and rebuild the way that you you have invited us to rebuild. Um and so if there are pieces and portions here that exist, tear them down. And I think your even your word uh stepped uh helped us step into that of recognizing uh look we are first we are first um uh of a we're kingdom people that's first what we are uh and if we take any other banner any other flag above that um now
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now we we've we've abdicated we've set aside like the the gift the thing that God has has invited us to all along Right. Yeah. What's your chyros? Um for me the uh what God has been reminding me um is to not to not miss the places he is at work in because this this whole conversation even it's easy to feel like like we have a lot of work to do like we we've missed the mark in a lot of places. Um, and so the reminder both in just what God's shown me in the last week, um, it multiple times this week,
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it feels like God is saying, um, do you not see me right here? Do you not see me still working? Um, do you not see me using the faithfulness of a few? Um, and and in Zechariah, he speaks that in in that narrative of the rebuilding of the temple, he says, "Do not despise these small beginnings, for the Lord rejoices to see the work begin." And so that message um that in the spaces where I feel where I look at the church or I look at Christians and I just like God come on you guys um that that reminder
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that God's like don't miss that I'm still working and I'm still moving and that I will use your faithfulness and the faithfulness of a few. Um so that's that's the that's what good guys. We we think uh thanks for joining us. We hope and pray that your conversations are going beyond Sunday and that God is stirring in your hearts and souls uh in a place and a direction that he's leading you into in in his kingdom. So, thanks for being with us. Have a blessed day. Thank you. Take care.
